User talk:JohnWheater

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Welcome!

Hello, JohnWheater, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 12:47, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Hello! Your choice of words is definitly better than mine! Good that you changed it! I love English, but I am not born English. Regards, Tellervo Tellervo 18:27, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Please, go on with your plan to write about the authenticity of "Commentariolum". I had no plan to add anything about this booklet. Did Marcus Tullius himself, write it after all?? Regards again!Tellervo 17:10, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

And thanks for taking care of my pople. (John User:Jwy talk) 14:00, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

1 Horace Odes & J. Michie
2 Newton
3 Help me

[edit] Horace Odes & J. Michie

If you're still interested in Horace you might like to read my remarks on this topic. All the best. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 19:16, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

I've put a reference to Michie's translation on the Horace page. His obituary makes it clear that he was taken seriously as a translator by WH Auden. --NigelG (or Ndsg) | Talk 20:54, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

{{helpme}} I'd like to make Sir Isaac the default for Newton - which surely is what people want. But I don't know how. Would someone do it - or teach me to fish?:-)

Hi there, there a lot of different meaning for Newton, therefore I don't think that would be advisable. There is a disambiugation page for Newton, which provides information on all possible articles with Newton in them. This is accesible here. I hope this helps! --The Helpful One ^(Review) 15:04, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Newton

I'd like to make Sir Isaac the default for Newton - which surely is what people want. But I don't know how. Would someone do it - or teach me to fish?:-)

Hi there,

I know you think Sir Isaac Newton is more important, but really Newton is named after Sir Isaac Newton, and the first sentence has a link to his name, therefore I would advise again changing it. --The Helpful One ^(Review) 10:54, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

OK, here's what I will suggest. I suggest that you establish a consensus to change it, on the Newton talk page, located here. If the editors that discuss on that page agree, then it will be changed. If not, then there will be no change. I hope this helps! --The Helpful One ^(Review) 17:30, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi there! Sorry if I came around that way, if you want to change the Newton to Sir Isaac Newton, then you would be able to do so, there is no "Elite Wiki PriestHood". You can change the article to be Sir Isaac Newton, but if it gets reverted, then you would have to discuss it on the talk page, so that editors can agree. If they don't agree to it, then that's what I meant by there will be *no change* - if other editors don't agree too - then I don't think you will be able to have it as Sir Isaac Newton for Newton. I hope this resolves your problem! :) The Helpful One ^(Review) 16:29, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Help me

[edit] Guidelines for default page

It is my view that a search for a common name, where one holder of the name is overwhelmingly well-known, should show first the page for the well-known holder. At present it is just silly that searches for –a)Lincoln, --b)Newton, and –c)Wellington, lead to: --a)an etymological discussion, --b)a term in physics, --c)a city in New Zealand (ironically, the latter two are named after the well-known holders). In each case there are instructions for disambiguation, but the need to go again is merely an irritant to the large majority of enquirers. The page of the well-known holder should offer disambiguation, as for example London does, but should be the first page the enquirer sees.

[edit] 2

I understand that the nature of Wiki is splendidly unauthoritarian, but there are guidelines to good practice (like no POV for example), and I should like this point to be considered by whatever people have the personal weight to get a guideline accepted.

[edit] 3

I should be glad to receive a response from someone other than ‘TheHelpfulOne’, who feels the default for each page should be left open, without guidance. The following is a copy of my enquiries on their talk page, to which their replies, in our ‘dialogue of the deaf’ above, refer:

[edit] Q1

Thanks for answering my plea for help, and yes, there are many things called Newton. But seriously, seriously now, what do you think the enquirer usually wants? Is it the SI unit of force? Is it the chocolate bar? Is it the pop group? No! It is Sir Isaac, a man who 'doth bestride this petty world like a colossus". Can you help me make him top? Replacing the SI unit of force, which is currently top. Let's help not to make Wiki a laughing stock! John Wheater (talk) 19:05, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Q2

Thank you for repeating your previous advice, but I seriously disagree. Is there some way opinion among cognoscenti such as yourself could be canvassed? I see the same laughable error with 'Wellington', where priority goes to the obscure city which was named after him! John Wheater (talk) 12:13, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Q3

Dear Helpful It does seem unlikely that you & I will be able to reach agreement on this matter. Your idea of polling those interested in Newton seems particularly odd, as the problem is not confined to Sir Isaac, but is shared by the Duke of Wellington, Abraham Lincoln, and General Ulysses S. Grant. To me it seems clear that a google ‘feeling lucky’ approach is right for towering world figures. The myriad other matches should be shown by “This page is about the US President Abraham Lincoln. For other Lincolns please see…” In this way the irritation of the second search is not experienced by the majority of enquirers. And it stops Wikipedia looking silly. I notice also that the mood of your advice has changed from subjunctive to imperative:-). When you say (my emboldening) "…I suggest that you establish a consensus to change it, on the Newton talk page, located here. If the editors that discuss on that page agree, then it will be changed. If not, then **there will be no change**. I hope this helps! --The Helpful One (Review) 17:30, 12 April 2008 (UTC)", it looks as though the desired change could only be applied by a sort of elite Wiki Priesthood. Is that right? It seems quite contrary to principle. If it is open to anyone, maybe you could point me to where the instructions are. I’d also like to submit this point to a larger forum than just thee & me. Any suggestions? With best wishes, Yours aye,

[edit] Last word on this topic

So it is, unless I can help. unsigned by JohnWheater, 08:27, 10 May 2008

Give me a moment to look into this.

(offtopic) don't forget to sign your comments.

Cheers, Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 09:59, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

JohnWheater,

WIkipedia, has a single to small group mentality for editing that might cause for problems as the one you are concerned with, but this system is also a factor in the success of the project.

Help people, may agree or disagree with you on whether Wellington should link to a city by that name or to a famous person but it's not the helper's role to make that decision. A helper needs to guide you on policy and give you your options for pursuing the change you want accomplished.

There's a number of options I can think of.

Be WP:BOLD and make the change. If there's an objection by the regular contributors to the pages you changed, then you should discuss the change with those people (not with the help people). If discussion fails, follow WP:DR. You could also raise your concerns/suggestion on the talk page before making the change to see if there's any reasoning against the change that you are unaware of.
Place a public note on a page such as the Village Pump to see how long time contributors (not the help people) feel about your suggestion.

There's probably other options out there, but these are the ones that come to mind as most probable.

Hope this helps you move forward with the change you're interested in, I can certainly see the issue come into concern with Lincoln. Jaakobou^{Chalk Talk} 10:21, 10 May 2008 (UTC)