Talk:Johnny Gosch

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[edit] De-Stubbing?

After much expansion, I believe this is closer to a proper article, and am removing it the stub notice. It still needs further contribution and certainly would benefit from editing by others. Chris Stangl 01:40, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV, Attribution and Sources

Nearly all the text of this article smacks of conspiracy theorizing, bias and nonsense. Various conspiracy theories may have a place in the article, but must be noted as such and separated from the factual data of the case. This page seriously needs BOTH Attention and Cleanup. Chris Stangl 22:48, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Eugene Martin

I'm unable to find information indicating Eugene Martin was ever located, nor, of course, independent reference to an "America's Most Wanted" interview with Martin. The Conspiracy Theory section is overrunning this article and rendering it useless, and as no concrete links between the Martin and Gosch cases were ever found. I am deleting reference to Eugene Martin kidnapping unless it can be expanded in more coherent fashion.Chris Stangl

[edit] Cleanup

After rewriting and virtually creating an entirely new article, I feel this article is cleaned-up enough to remove the cleanup tag. Chris Stangl 01:44, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Johnny Gosch-Related discussion

[edit] Conspiracy of Silence

Why is the "Conspiracy of Silence" so powerful? Why don't more people know or care about this story? http://www.kwwl.com/global/story.asp?s=3226392&ClientType=Printable local TV station article

Conspiracy of Silence [Every American Should See This Video]  http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=88377 excellent article, with links to the video,

which 1 year after all copies were thought to have been destroyed was sent to an investigator.

This was extensive investigative report was banned from TV (Discovery Channel in US), and all copies were ordered to have been destroyed. Who has this kind of power? People apparently were killed over this. If there are people that ruthless, and evil out there, they need to be dealt with. We have a right and need to know the truth. Please read the above information, and watch the video, and think hard. This is more than the heart breaking story of one boy, his mom, family and neighborhood. This is a true story that has implications that should concern all of US.

this was not "banned" it simply was not aired to do obvious defamation and liabel problems71.252.106.49 23:46, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Johnny Gosch and Jeff Gannon

 This article does not cite any references or sources. (August 2006)
Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unverifiable material may be challenged and removed.

In 2005, Gosch was the subject of a conspiracy theory centering around conservative journalist Jeff Gannon. In the 1990's, Gannon ran a homosexual escort service under his real name, James Guckert. Gannon/Guckert's escort service reportedly serviced Washington, D.C. political clients, and paid visits to the White House. The first public speculation linking the two cases occurred on February 26, 2005, on The Democratic Underground, a liberal political website.

Skeptics of the Gannon connection point out that no DNA evidence has ever been tendered, the ages of Gosch and Gannon do not match, nor do they resemble one another. Gannon himself does not lend any credence to the theory and flatly denies that he is Johnny Gosch. Conspiracy theorists counter that Gannon may be unaware he is Gosch, all memory of his past life perhaps obliterated by MK-Ultra, Project Monarch, or complicity with the conspiracy.

On July 8, 2005 Jeff Gannon called into the radio program A Closer Look hosted by Michael Corbin and agreed to take a DNA test to prove he was not the missing boy. As of June 2006 Gannon has not taken the test even though the offer remains open with Johnny's mom Noreen Gosch. [1] On May 10, 2006 occult author William H. Kennedy was a guest on A Closer Look and renewed the offer for Gannon to take the DNA test with Norren Gosch. [2]

–SydneyH 04:50, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2006 photos

According to CNN, Noreen Gosch received photographs of Johnny on her doorstep. Authorities believe they are authentic and were taken hours after his abduction. –http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/01/missing.boy.photos.ap/index.htmlSydneyH 19:37, 1 September 2006 (UTC)SydneyH SydneyH 19:37, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

Nowhere does it say "authorities believe them authentic." It says "investigators" believe them authenitic when Ms. Gosch has over the years been involved with extremely conspiracy minded discredited private "investigators."
What the cnn article says is authorites are investigating whther they are doctored -- whcih pretty clearly says they have not come to the conclusion they are authentic.71.252.106.49 23:36, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
There is a link to the photo in the article and it is compelling. Gosch appears to be wearing the pants he was reported to have been wearing when last seen. Lets try and keep this article up to date as the news breaks but be mindful of NPOV. Remember, cite your sources. Conspiracy theories can be documented in an article such as this so long as you cite the source of the quote or the thoery according to standards. Just do your best to state the info as disapassionately as possibly and with a NPOV. Here on the Talk page we can be a little less strict, but still, no authority has made a definitive statement yet regarding the photos. The National Center for Missing Children is also looking at the photo to see if they can identify the two other boys pictured. What an odd and distressing development for Noreen Gosch.Lisapollison 17:19, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Forgive me, for this is my first time editing a talk page and if this is wrong I'll just delete it and act like it never happened. I like conspiracy theories and whatnot, but I don't particularly care for the link to the last picture. I feel it needs some disclaimer as those picture are about as close to kiddie porn as possible. The last thing I need is to be put on an FBI list because of some wikipedia link. Thanks.
Thank you for mentioning this. I don't know why someone put that link there, but the link has no redeeming value whatsoever that I can imagine becuase the pictures related to the case are supposedly not even there anymore. Thank you again for bringing this up.Well then 21:01, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
Thanks again for editing that link away. I was the one who edited this page and didn't know how to put a signature at the end. --Mr Vain 16:16, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree that autorities/investigators are still trying to determine the photographs' authenticity. Pretty compelling evidence is described in more detail on Noreen Gosch's website www.johnnygosch.com.

An anonymous user [132.241.246.111] keeps adding that Ms. Gosch "claims" taht she found the pictures. This sounds like original research and is hardly NPOV. Please leave it. Mapetite526 21:53, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Has anyone looked into the possiblity of munchausen by proxy variant?

I was reading this and occam's razor kicked in - the story of this kid is a great, uh, story but it really doesn't add up for me for this reason: If you abducted a kid for sex trafficking, you wouldn't send the parents pictures of the kid bound like that at different points in their life (I looked at the mom's website), and you probably wouldn't send death threats - at this time the case is cold, so a criminal org as good as this one (child sex trafficking with no one the wiser? pretty crafty criminals!) wouldn't risk reopening the case and inciting public awareness of the crime.

So then I wondered if maybe it's a serial killer type guy that never actually kills the victim. But then mthe mother says the kid is alive and living under a secret identity.

So my question is: Has anyone checked to see if the mother faked it all for attention? It seems like she gets a fairly constant stream of attention from her son's abduction, enough that it would probably be safe for him to come forward at this point and name his abductors. If he had just disappeared I would think that she was just unable to accept his disappearance (fully understandable), but the fact that she produces pictures of him occasionally makes me suspicious. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.224.204.21 (talk) 17:19, 17 March 2007 (UTC).

I don't feel comfortable speculating that she was responsible, but none of her claims make any sense. She could just be a nutter, but it is a little suspicious.71.63.119.49 05:39, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Well using occam's razor is a matter of seeking simplicity without having to make assumptions. The photo's turned up on the internet, at least some at the same time as with noreen gosch, i think? the police agree that at least some originated from that site that got taken off the net. if noreen had been responsible i'm sure the police would have at least mentioned it and i would probably be cited as one of the first statements in any anti conspiracy argument. Also you would have to assume she carried it out without having a witness, while he was on his paper round. also munchausen sufferers who partake in this kind of attention seeking would mean she would probably have a whole string of missing family members or something. and you say no one the wiser? well then why is this discussion even taking place? but on the other hand i don't know either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.2.124 (talk) 15:01, 31 May 2008 (UTC)