Talk:John Ross (Cherokee chief)

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 John Ross (Cherokee chief) was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Reviewed version: May 20, 2008
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Contents

[edit] Editing this Article

This page as become highly stable following a period of intensive edits which have created a balanced and detailed article on Ross's life and leadership. Attention should be focused on gaps in Ross's life and leadership, particularly following removal. Citations are being added for the information already in this article and new information should have citations as well. Jaedglass 16:26, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Accuracy of the painting

The painting looks odd. I don't know if Ross had markings on the right side of his face, but they look photoshoped or not part of the origional painting. Are there any other depictions of Ross, and can someone please add them if possible? Thanks Gloushire 03:29, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

As part of my revisions to this page I have changed the layout of the pictures and found an unblemished verison of the mared Ross painting. Jaedglass 04:00, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Transition from Pathkiller to Ross

Are there any documents that someone can cite that show that Charles Hicks actually became principal chief with the death of Pathkiller? Gary Moulton writes in his biography of Ross that Hicks died two weeks after Pathkiller does not describe Hicks as having been principal chief with the death of Pathkiller. Ross' letter from his collected papers, which I cited in the Ross article indicate the successive losses of Pathkiller and Hicks left Ross as the sole leader of the nation, but also does not indicate that Hicks had been elevated to the role of principal chief.

I don't think it can be presumed that Hicks had accended to the role of principal chief simply because Pathkiller died. The closeness in proximity of their deaths raises the question of whether any formal decisions had been reached as to the new leadership structure and whether Hicks was physically capable of performing any act as principal chief.

If we cannot find some primary source that demostates that Hicks was principal chief for that two week period, I believe it is misleading for the information on this page to state that Hicks served as principal chief prior to Ross. I believe it is appropriate for those who have added this information to find some documentation or to change the succession box on the Ross page and rewrite the Charles R. Hicks page.

[edit] Vandalism

The John Ross page has recently become a target of vandalism. I understand that there is some way to set the permissions so that only those people logged on to Wikipedia are permitted to make changes, but I do not know how to do this. I am interested to know if someone who is regularly watching this page can explain how to do this. J.G.

[edit] "Cherokee Moses"

The intro is well-written, and I thought the section previously under the subtitle "Cherokee Moses" would work well as part of it rather than warranting its own section. Due to the irony of the quote by which said subtitle took its name, I don't know that the phrase works as a sort of chapter of Ross' life. To state the obvious, McKenny's statement, which compares the Trail of Tears to the Hebrew Exodus, is ridiculous--being forced to leave the land of your "nativity" is not the same as escaping the land of your people's slavery. While Ross was esteemed by many Cherokee, he was certainly not looked to as a "Moses." Efrafra 06:30, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I have returned the Cherokee Moses heading. The heading isn't about describing an era of his life, but offers the reader at the top of this entry an understanding of the importance of Ross as an historical figure. In many ways, Ross' life was about leadership, and the article discusses his life by narrating his rise in power and efforts to avoid removal.

From McKenny's perspective, Ross was leading the Cherokee Nation to freedom, and I suspect that Ross' efforts fighting removal in Washington must have struck McKenny as similar to Moses' interactions with Pharaoh and Ross' involvment in drafting a Cherokee constitution as Moses the law-giver. Moreover, McKenny saw no irony in casting the Cherokee Nation in the role of Hebrew slaves dispite the fact that the Cherokee were themselves owners of African slaves, that they moved their slave to Oklahoma, and ultimately joined the Confederacy.

McKenny knew Ross well and obviously held him in high regard. His contemporaneous discription is highly relevant, and highlighting that phrase offers readers insight into Ross' leadership.

[edit] Triva

I have return the fact the City of Chattanooga has named the Market Street Bridge after Ross to a Triva section. This information really has no place in the conclusion which is better suited for summing up Ross' life and leadership. While I think it is meaningful that Ross' life has been comemorated in this way, this information comes off as more triva than pertinent historical information which is the thrust of the entire article leading up to and including the conclusion.

[edit] GA fail

I'm sorry to inform the editors of this article that I am quickfailing its Good Article nomination due to inadequate referencing. Here are some things to do before renomination:

  • Per WP:LEAD, the lead should be about two or three full paragraphs summarizing all the main points of the article.
  • There are entire sections and paragraphs without a single reference. Everything must be cited.
  • There are some WP:MOS issues. I'd suggest getting someone from WikiProject:League of Copyeditors to look it over.
  • Full dates should be wikilinked: May 19, 2008.
  • Don't name a section "Conclusion". That makes it sound more like an essay for class than an encyclopedia article.
  • The books in the "Further reading" need isbn numbers.
  • Merge or delete the trivia per WP:TRIVIA.

Another good idea is to get a peer review. They will help with more specific changes to make. Good luck. Nikki311 06:51, 20 May 2008 (UTC)