Talk:John Browning

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The greatest gun inventor that the U.S. has ever known. And a Mormon to boot. Since almost every U.S. citizen either knows a Mormon, or owns a gun, I think the impact of these great people is undisputable. John Browning is my hero, and Mormons are cool.

Agree with the first part, Mormons not so much...Anon

Contents

[edit] Patents Added

I've done some intensive primary research. With some great pains, I've gone through and verified prior sources for information on what patents John Browning was issued. Unfortunately, I've only come up with 79 of them. I'd greatly appreciate anybody who has more of these patents posting them as well. --Asams10 12:45, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Browning Model 1903 article requested

I'm wikifying Trent's Last Case for Wikisource, and in Chapter 12 Bentley refers to

... Kurland and Livonia, where Citizen Browning was abroad again, and town and countryside blazed in revolt.

First of all, I'd like some slightly-more-expert confirmation of my guess that "Citizen Browning" refers to the Model 1903, which would have been used by the Russian troops (and not e.g. to just any old gun, or to John Browning himself). Second, I'd like to be able to have a bluelink directly to the appropriate article, rather than to a biography of the gun's inventor, which means I need a new article on the gun in question!

I have approximately zero knowledge of firearms, and this looks like a tricky one to Google, so any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks much! --Quuxplusone 21:59, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Colt 1903 article help.

You'll probably have to create an article yourself. Here's a picture to help you from my private collection. Public Domain. --Asams10 03:34, 1 August 2005 (UTC) Colt 1903 pistol. Father of the Colt 1911 pistol.

[edit] strike that, reverse it

this page should redirect to John Moses Browning, not the other way around. pauli 19:03, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Production

I would dispute the assertion that "several of the models are still in production" the repeating pump and lever shotguns have not been made by the original manufacturers in several decades. The Winchester 1894 is the only production lever gun they still make. The 1895, 1892, and 1886 have been made as limited edition collectors items, but that is not "still in production" to me. Similarly, the only automatic weapon "still in production" is the M2 50 caliber machinegun. edited by George Chabot

George, you are disputing an assertion that has not been made. What was said was: "Several of his designs are still in production today." That statement is indisputably correct. His designs include the 1911, Hi Power and all of the "ACP" cartridges, these alone satisfy the "several of his designs" criteria and are obviously in current production. There are of course others, these are the most well-known designs and have been in continuous production since their inception. - (a concerned reader that has no idea how to sign their comments and frankly doesn't care to :)


George. Please research how to add and sign your comments. Now then, your point that the gun isn't being produced by the original producer is irrelevant. Browning designed guns were made under license sometimes by FN, Colt, Remington, Stevens, or a combination of those. There were unlicensed copies made as well and these made all over the world. The current production of guns of his design does not need to be at the Browning Arms facility in Utah or the Original FN plant in Belgium, nor by any iteration that was ever licensed to produce them. There are several models still in production. Notably, the 1911, Ithaca 37, 1886, 1897, and some of his 22 models whose names escape me now. Yes, the M2 is also in production in near original form as well.
If you want to get overly technical about it, only one of his 'models' was ever produced and that was the Low-Wall. In every other instance, Browning sent a working model that was re-engineered for production. --Asams10 16:56, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

On production... With the exception of the original single shot -- which taught JMB all of the reasons why manufacture in Utah was a bad idea, particularly a hundred or so years ago -- no Browning guns were ever made there. The company headquartered there contracted out manufacturing, mostly to FN in Belgium and, post-1960s, Miroku in Japan. Probably the most widely produced of his sporting arms today are the .22 semi-auto and the superposed shotgun (which is made by FN, and by Miroku both under the Browning brand and its own.) This is not to say that they are exactly the same guns as Browning designed -- indeed he died before finishing the single-trigger for the superposed and both that and the ejector mechanism have evolved over the years. But the guns are still recognisably his. Yajaboo 11:06, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


--Topnife 22:39, 24 May 2006 (UTC)== Format for list of firearms ==

I've added a comment to the main page about the format for a list of firearms. I'm trying to keep the list standardized and short. I feel that any commentary or interesting tidbits should be limited to articles on the individual firearms. Each firearm should also have its own line. Please comment on this here. Thanks.--Asams10 21:11, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Re the Product Listing: I believe that Browning was also responsible for the Winchester Model 1886 Lever Action Rifle, the Model 92 Lever Action Rifle, and the Model 71 Lever Action Rifle. Should these be included on that list? --Topnife 22:39, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Biography

There's little info about the man in what is supposed to be a biography article. How did he die? Did he do anything in life which wasn't related to guns? --172.145.203.21 01:53, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Uh, it says how he died and virtually his entire life was devoted to guns too. The article talks about his son, his religion and his stint as a Mormon missionary. Heck, even while on a mission, JMB was still thinking about guns. Please don't try to make your point by skimming the article and making false assumptions.--Asams10 21:07, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why dates are linked

The reason for linking dates that contain a specific year, month, and day is that it allows each user's preference for date format (output mask) to display dates in the way that he/she prefers. For example, when I view this John Browning article, on my PC screen, this is how it looks:

John Moses Browning (1855-01-21 – 1926-11-26), born in Ogden, Utah, was an American firearms designer who […]

… because I have my date format preference set to YYYY-MM-DD. This is discussed further at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Dates containing a month and a day. It is not vital, but it is a nice feature. Lumbercutter 02:56, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rename to John Moses Browning?

I suggest renaming the article to John Moses Browning, to further assist in differentiating the subject from his father, John/Jonathan Browning. I see that it's been discussed once before, in early 2006, and was not discussed further. Pfagerburg 15:40, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I think that it could be argued that his father, Jonathan Edmund Browning should have an article of his own. This is due to his importance as the primary arms manufacturer to the Mormon pilgrims and the efficiency of his multi-shot 'harmonica' rifles.D.E. Watters 04:44, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
His father does have an article, Jonathan Browning. Not to mention few if anybody looking for "John Browning" would seriously be looking for the elder Browning.--Asams10 05:03, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cartridges

It is arguable if J.M. Browning had any role in creating the cartridges for his firearms. The .32 and .38 ACP cartridges are credited to Winchester, the .25 and .380 ACP have been credited to UMC employee William Morgan Thomas, and the .45 ACP and .50 BMG were Winchester/Frankford Arsenal developments. D.E. Watters 04:44, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy in firearm used in Archduke Franz Ferdinand assassination

What firearm was used in Archduke Franz Ferdinand assassination, Browning Mod. 1900 or 1910? There is controversy between articles "Jonh Browning" and "Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand". Please revise for precising. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.0.210.102 (talk) 14:07, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

There's no controversy. It was a model 1910. Do we have to go back and change the assasination article again? --Asams10 (talk) 18:12, 20 February 2008 (UTC)
Yep, I did. For some time, it was ASSUMED that the pistol used must have been a 1900 though all accounts, records, and serial numbers were of the Model 1910. It was also ASSUMED that the .32 ACP was used, but again they even had the .380 caliber bullets recovered so yep, it was a .380. Frustrating, yes. --Asams10 (talk) 18:49, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Where are the Colt and FN chapters?

There are four chapters still missing. I tried to add the part where Browning actually made his own firearms, but there are four other phases in Browning's life that need covered. First, Browning had a falling-out with Winchester and went to Remington to offer them his Auto-5 shotgun. When the president of Remington died and was obviously unable to meet with Browning, he went to Belgium and partnered with FN. Second, Browning had Colt build and market his machineguns and pistols. Third, Browning designs were sold to others including Savage (the model 520) for production. Fourth and finally, Browning designed the BAR, machineguns, and an automatic Cannon for the United States military. I believe his design history should be broken up into subsections:

  1. Pre-Winchester
  2. Winchester
  3. FN
  4. Colt
  5. Military Weapons
  6. Freelance Work

--Asams10 (talk) 18:11, 20 February 2008 (UTC)