Talk:Jim Henson

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Contents

[edit] funeral

I've heard (from several sources) that the muppets performed during the funeral (or was it the memorial service, if that's different in this case). I can't seem to find a decent first-hand account (other than the director's commentary for the movie Love Actually, which I've since returned to the video store). So if someone knows anything concrete about that, it would make a nice addition to the "died" paragraph. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 02:56, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Done! I've the DVD with me just now. Turly-burly 15:57, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

The Muppet Show DVD that contains the Harry Belafonte episode also contains Bryan Henson's commentary about his dad's funeral, and I THINK I remember some footage of Mr. Belafonte performing at the funeral/memorial service. I believe this performance contained the "special" muppets that appeared in one number with Belafonte on the Muppet Show and never appeared again until the funeral.


Yes, Kermit the Frog and Big Bird did in fact preform at Jim Henson's Funeral. Kermit and Big Bird sang the song "It's Not That Easy Being Green."

That's incorrect. Firstly, the performances being spoken of were not his funeral (which was private), but his public memorial service which was held at the Cathedral Church of St. John the Divine in NYC. It was here that Big Bird sang Bein' Green, and the Muppet performers sang medlies of sweet and silly songs. Kermit did not appear for the first time after Henson's death until the airing of The Muppets Celebrate Jim Henson on November 21, 1990, when we was performed by Steve Whitmire (and continues to be today). scarecroe 21:45, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jabba the Hutt?

The article mentions Yoda, but I thought that Jabba the Hutt was also partly a muppet?

Neither Yoda nor Jabba were Muppets. Muppet is a capitalized term and applies only to Jim Henson's creations. scarecroe 16:03, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
As well, Jim Henson only aided in the design of Yoda. Frank Oz did all the main pupeteering and the voicing for Yoda. There were multiple puppets in the Star Wars Trilogy, but Yoda was the only one Jim Henson was involved with.SkittlzAnKomboz 03:20, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Henson hardly "aided" in anything having to do with the creation/conception of Yoda. More accurately, he unofficially conferred with those who were involved. —scarecroe 04:41, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Hence the word "aided" instead of the phrase "worked on". He has admitted to helping on Yoda, but not enough to deem credit in any of the movies. SkittlzAnKomboz 01:36, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Julia Grownup?

Never heard of her (my Sesame Street years were probably 1980-1985 or so). Was this post-Henson? If so, it probably doesn't belong in the article, though it's definitely interesting. Jdavidb 20:48, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Julia Grownup was an Electric Company phenomenon. That show ended in 1977 (though I hear rumor it may be back soon), so she's definitely during Henson's period. -- ke4roh 13:11, Jul 21, 2004 (UTC)

Was The Electric Company a Henson production? Was Julia Grownup a character he (and or his company) were responsible for creating? The Electric Company article doesn't mention Henson, although I found references online that say that Muppets "occasionally" visited the show. Jdavidb 15:38, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The Electric Company was done during the time Henson worked on Sesame Street, and it was done by Children's Television Workshop, but I don't think Henson had anything to do with it. Certainly the Muppets as such were not involved. And while I was a pretty regular viewer, I don't even remember seeing them as guests. Anyway, Julia Grownup was definitely not a Muppet, but was played by Judy Graubart.

[edit] Other things

This biographical piece is very US-centric. Jim Henson was very active in the European community in puppetry, but, unfortunately, we didn't get much information over here.

I'm asking someone who is more familiar with his overseas efforts to include some information regarding his accomplishments over there. I think it would help demonstrate his overlooked mature side. I understand, from what I heard, the productions over there were more risque'.

Why is there no article for Fraggle Rock?!?!?!?!?!?

There is.


There is no mention of his works on the TV show City kids.

City Kids didn't happen until 3 years after his death. —scarecroe 14:03, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Death

I read somewhere that Henson was a Christian Scientist, which is why he let his infection progress to the terminal stage. If this is true, would it be relevant to the article? DS 17:58, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Yes, but I'm not sure it's true.
(google)
From the People magazine article "Legacy of a Gentle Genius", which I found here:
By 2 A.M. Henson was having difficulty breathing and had been coughing up blood, though Jane [Henson] didn't know for how long. "I remember saying, 'Can we go to the hospital? Can we call a nurse, a doctor?' " she says. "But he said, 'just rub my back. Try to calm down my breathing.' At one point, he said, 'Maybe I'm dying.' He did say that. But, you know, whenever you're sick, you say, 'God, I feel like I'm going to die.' "
Still, he did not leave for a hospital. Part of the reason, says Jane, was his Christian Science upbringing. While he didn't practice the faith, "it affects his general thinking," says Jane. "Not that he mistrusted doctors, but he would rather just see it through by himself."
The more critical reason was that he just didn't want to bother anyone. "I think he knew there was a possibility he was dying," says Jane, "and that possibly was why he didn't want to go to a doctor. He really didn't want anyone else to be disturbed by his pain."
The impression I got from the overall thing (including the bits I haven't quoted here), "not wanting to bother anyone" was a much more significant factor than the Christian Science influence. Even "rather just see it through by himself" sounds like it could be not-wanting-to-bother-people as much as the other thing. --Paul A 23:56, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
That said, Henson's Christian Science upbringing is probably worth mentioning in the article somewhere. --Paul A 00:12, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Just want to point out that I have no idea where the spammy link came from in this edit I made. I use an old Mac and iCab, not IE, so I'm not sure what's going on. —tregoweth 06:18, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

When I was a lad my dad told me of Jim Henson's death. Though he didn't atrribute it to religious reasons. From him and others down the line I was told that he was working, constantly, and when pressured about looking sick he would reply "Its just a cough, I'll be alright". The not wanting to bother people idea is more correct, though in the end it may have been a combination of that, doctor phobia and not having the time to go. We really can't know for certain, but I don't believe that christian science had anything to do with it. Forgot to log in. Zanduar 04:59, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Request for references

Hi, I am working to encourage implementation of the goals of the Wikipedia:Verifiability policy. Part of that is to make sure articles cite their sources. This is particularly important for featured articles, since they are a prominent part of Wikipedia. Further reading is not the same thing as proper references. Further reading could list works about the topic that were not ever consulted by the page authors. If some of the works listed in the further reading section were used to add or check material in the article, please list them in a references section instead. The Fact and Reference Check Project has more information. Thank you, and please leave me a message when you have added a few references to the article. - Taxman 16:48, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jim Henson Memorial

I was actually at the memorial service at the cathedral of St. John the Divine in Manhattan.

There was a musical performance by the core group of Muppet performers. A handful of "Jim's favorite songs" were performed by Frank Oz, Jerry Nelson, Dave Goelz,Steve Whitmire (wearing a Kermit green suit, as he was to be the future voice of Kermit) Kevin Clash and Richard Hunt. Songs included, Coddleston Pie, You Are my Sunshine, Lydia the Tattoed Lady and more. The performance culminated with the song If Just One Person Believes in You. This song was begun by Richard Hunt working the Muppet Scooter. As each verse progressed each puppeteer reached behind and revealed their Muppet to join in and as the song drew to it's final verses all the Muppet performers holding Muppets they made famous joined the core group onstage and finished the song to a tearful standing ovation.

Big Bird , earlier in the memorial service, sang, It's Not Easy Being Green alone, not with Kermit as mentioned on the site. He was wearing a Kermit green bow tie and at the songs conclusion, obviously broken up, he gazed upwards and said, "Thank you Kermit."

Hope this info adds to the page regarding Jim Henson.

Chris

Chris left the above comment on my talk page. I don't have any connection to this article other than the above request I made. Hopefully someone here has the resources to verify Chris's information. Thanks - Taxman Talk 02:19, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

There is footage of the memorial service in a PBS documentary on Jim Henson, but I don't think the services were actually televised... Can anyone confirm or deny this? whysanitynet 21:03, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yoda?

I do not believe that Jim had anything to do with the production on any Star Wars films: Neither Jim Henson nor the Jim Henson Creature Shop appear anywhere in the Star Wars credits, and Star Wars doesn't appear on the IMDB listing for either Jim Henson or the Jim Henson Creature Shop. Both Lucas and Henson have produced mostly at Elstree Studios, and they share many collaborators in common, including of course Frank Oz, but except for "Labyrinth", I don't think they worked together, and I don't think Henson was any part of the creation of Yoda or the Star Wars creatures. I am removing the picture and the reference. Please feel free to reinstate it if you can point to a reliable source. BarkingDoc]]

[edit] Family?

There is no mention of his family, I understand he had a daughter, Lisa Henson, who also has made a name for herself; I imagine he also married and had other children. If someone can find out more about that, it would be a great addition to Wikipedia.

[edit] Religion?

This little question has been bothering me for some time - Was Jim Henson a Christian? As he seperated from the Christian Scientist church (which is considered a cult), it seems to me he could very well have become a Protestant or Catholic. There are a few "Christian" themes in the show, and it just feels to me he might have been a Christian. I have not found that answer anywhere, so if anyone knows, please answer. Thanks!

In my experience, the word "cult" is largely defined by the person who uses it, not the entity to whom it is applied. Christian Scientists consider themselves to be Christians just as much as any other Christian sect, Catholic, Protestant, or otherwise. If themes which are specific to Christianity appear in Henson's work, they can most likely be traced to his Christian Science upbringing.
To be honest I saw it as referencing Christianity less than even Disney did. "Love your enemy" is the only somewhat specifically Christian idea I can think of to be in his work. Otherwise I think it was moral, but not specific to any religion. If I were to choose a religious mindset for it I'd say Taoism. He did a great deal about nature, harmony, and there being a balancing of chaos and order rather than a war of good and evil. The Dark Crystal is maybe the most overtly Taoist feeling of his films, but images of Taoist-type quasi-hermits who are dwarfed by the immensity of nature is in several others. In the original Muppet Movie Kermit almost fits that.--T. Anthony 15:52, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Why does Jim Henson's religion (or lack thereof) matter in the least? Some people..... PeteJayhawk 06:18, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
I would think the reason is obvious. I don't know why people here get so intensely uncomfortable with even the mention of a person's religion. Still whether people like it or not religion or religious upbringing can be significant to outlook, particularly in the case of artists. Henson isn't the best case here, but his religious background is a source of discussion and rumors concerning his death. Some people.....--T. Anthony 03:57, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

You know, it doesn't matter, I suppose. Neither does where he was born, really. However, it's an interesting piece of information to include in the article. It's a biographical article, and his religion and how it influenced his work is biographical information. I'm interested in learning more about this now, too. No real reason, just that I am now curious.--Raulpascal 21:21, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Featured article criteria

Hello! I noticed the article is rather short (i.e. possibly not comprehensive) and desperately lacks references. Also, the Kermit sculpture image has no copyright information and the three fair use images use the old {{fairuse}} tags when they should use more specific ones, and do not provide rationale.

I'm nominating the article for a major featured article review and I hope it would be considerably improved very soon. If not, it would very likely be removed from the list of featured articles. Todor→Bozhinov 20:10, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Curtis quote

I'm wondering if Richard Curtis should really be allotted a block quote about Henson's funeral, especially since at least two details in his description of the event are verifiably false, both by Jim Hill's recounting and the NYT article on the funeral. What is his block quote doing that an encyclopedic summary couldn't do? -Hobbesy3 13:49, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA comment

  • The Sesame Street image needs a fair use rationale for use on this article. Look to other GAs for examples. --Nehrams2020 06:00, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
    • Fixed. -Hobbesy3 16:57, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Nomination on Hold

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
  5. It is stable.
  6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
    a (tagged and captioned): b (lack of images does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
  7. Overall:
    a Pass/Fail:


[edit] Suggestions by section

As issues are corrected, strike-through the suggestions (starting after the *) and place {{done}} after.

[edit] Lead

  • Criteria 1b requires the article comply with the Manual of Style regarding lead sections.
    • The lead should be a summary of the article, briefly touching on each section of the article. Currently it lacks details from
    • Emboldened titles and variations should appear in the title sentence (the first sentence of the lead). In this case, I recommend rewording the first sentence to "Jim Henson, born James Maury Henson, (September 24, 1936 – May 16, 1990) was ..." Then remove this detail from the first sentence of Early life. Y Done

[edit] Early life

  • "the biggest event of his adolescence," - Is this quote covered by the citation located at the end of the paragraph? If so, reference it at the end of the quote as well. Also, who is this quoting? If it were him, shouldn't it read "the biggest event of my adolescence"? (emphasis mine) Y Done; Quote is from the citation at end of sentence; I've added that citation directly after the quote. It is NYT prose that says Henson remembered it as "the biggest event of his adolescence."
  • Who says that Kermit is the most famous muppet? Y Done

[edit] Struggles and projects in the sixties

  • Because it is a colloquialism, "America" should be changed to "the United States" and wikified. Y Done

[edit] Transition to the big screen

  • The Yoda paragraph could use a reference. Y Done
  • "Crystal was a financial and critical success, and, a year later, the Muppet-starring The Muppets Take Manhattan (directed by Frank Oz) also did well." - "did well" is vague. How well did it do? Y Done

[edit] References

  • Ensure they are consistently formatted. Currently, the date of publication varies. Considering the cite web template is used, the "|date=" field should be used. This places the publication date in parenthesis after the author name, when available. Y Done
  • TIME magazine should be capitalized in references. Y Done
  • Reference 4 (the newest addition) does not adequately verify the claim. It merely refers to him as "a more enduring star". Additionally, another wiki does not necessarily constitute a reliable source. Y Done
  • For the references stating "(fee required)"; are you sure? It appears membership is required, but that the membership is free. Y Done; NYT membership is free, but with the membership you only get access to reviews, tiny articles, and articles written in the last 6 days. For everything else, there’s a fee.

[edit] Non-section-specific

  • Cities, states, and countries should be wikified in their first occurrence for context. Also, Washington should be wikified for the additional reason of distinguishing between the state and D.C. Y Done
  • Ensure terms aren't unnecessarily wikified multiple times. I tried to correct this, but I think I may have missed a few. Y Done
  • Are all redlinks notable subjects/topics that qualify to be written of in this encyclopedia? Any that are not should not be wikified. Y Done
  • There should be a consistency in how decades are written, i.e. either 1950s or fifties. Y Done; fixed three instances where article uses "1950s" format.

[edit] Conclusion

I've known since I was a child who Jim Henson is, but I did not know any details of his life or accomplishments. He has always simply been "The Muppet creator", to me. However, in reading this article, I was not only educated, I was touched. This article is informative and wonderfully well written. Both balanced and broad, the authors of this article have honored Jim Henson and, for that, should all be proud.

With that said, the article has some areas in need of improvement. There were several minor issues with the article that I corrected myself. I recommend looking through the article history to see these changes for future knowledge. I've placed this article on hold for no more than seven days so that these changes can be made. I will continue to help and, I'm sure, the article will be a GA by this time next week. LaraLoveT/C 05:21, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

    • Thanks! Made some of your suggested changes, with more to come. Hobbesy3 07:00, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
    • Made all suggested changes except for expanded lead. Hobbesy3 19:24, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

The easiest way to write a lead is to write a concise summary of each section of the article in the order they appear in the article. See WP:LEAD for further details. But, basically, you just want to write a couple of sentences regarding the most important and notable information from each section, and break this information down into 2-4 paragraphs. For this article, probably 4. Let me know if you need help. LaraLoveT/C 05:19, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

The only thing missing is his death and tributes. Briefly state when and how he died and then summarize the tributes. LaraLove 05:31, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Everything looks good now. Congratulations, and good work. LaraLove 19:57, 14 July 2007 (UTC)


The introduction is rather long. Guest. 3:45AM 13 April 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.225.171.137 (talk) 08:01, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Worth mentioning?

Should it be mentioned that Jim Henson was against adding major female puppets to Sesame Street and other shows? Should it also be mentioned that he disliked the falsetto voices men did when playing female puppets and that he was against women controlling puppets because he thought it was unladylike? I'm not starting rumors, the info came from this book (http://www.amazon.com/Saturday-Morning-Censors-Television-Console-ing/dp/0822322404/) of course, it may not all be true. :-) OughtToShip (talk) 00:15, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

If he was against it, Fran Brill wouldn't be performing Prairie Dawn and Zoe Monster. Angie Y. (talk) 16:20, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] If I could...

If I had the power to pull a soul back to Earth and make that person flesh again, I'd pull Jim back to Earth. He's one of the most talented men in the World, and I cry knowing I am touched by his amazing work. Angie Y. (talk) 16:20, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] the amazing man

jim henson was truley amazing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.126.39.228 (talk) 23:20, 28 May 2008 (UTC)