Talk:Javanese language

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[edit] IPA

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template.

Yes I'll look into it. Meursault2004 00:13, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Done by several contributors. Meursault2004 5 July 2005 07:33 (UTC)

[edit] Copyedit

I edit in many small chunks. In an effort to not add tons of editing incidents to the main article, I'm gonna put them in User:Bubamara/Javanese_language and then merge the whole thing in one fell swoop. Or maybe 2 or 3 fell swoops. Also, I'm dumb and put the discussion on my user page, so here it is, reconstructed. Bubamara 08:25, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

    1. Inro, Para2: is it factually correct to say "Javanese is spoken on the north coast of West, Central and East Java" instead of "Javanese is spoken on the north coast of West Java, Central and East Java"?
    2. Inro, Para2: is Sunda 'equivalent to' West Java, or 'in' west java?
    3. Inro, Para2: is it relevant / notable that "It was the court language in Palembang, South Sumatra before their palace was sacked by the Dutch in the late 18th century."
    4. Intro, Para5: "Javanese has been written with the Javanese script, (a descendant of the Brahmi script of India), Arabo-Javanese script, Arabic script (modified for Javanese) and Latin script." has been or is?
    5. Intro, Para6: " It is estimated that it is spoken or understood by at least 80 millions people. " the intro says that ethnologue puts the # at 75,500,000. I don't really care which #, but the article should be internally consistant. btw, ethnologue is some sketchy christian group, which makes me more skeptical about their veracity.
  • other problems:
    1. side table lists javanese at 11th most speakers, but they're 12th right now.

Bubamara

ad. 1: I think it's better to say: Javanese is spoken in Central and East Java. It is also spoken on the north coast of West Java. ad. 2:Sunda is in West Java. However some consider the whole fof West Java as Sunda. ad. 3: Yes. ad. 4: Is. ad. 5: OK. ad. 6: OK.

OK, thanks! Meursault2004 07:10, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

  • Wow. Thanks. I have a question your response about Sunda & West Java. What did you mean when you wrote "In Sunda (West Java), Madura, Bali and Lombok, Javanese is also used as a literary language." I want to edit those parentheses out of there, but don't understand which of the following is correct: a) In the Sunda region of West Java, Madura, Bali and Lombok. . . or b) In Sunda, Madura, Bali and Lombok . . . Bubamara 09:19, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Sunda was/is a region, located in West Java. Well actually that is the name of an ethnic group and their language. Madura, Bali and Lombok are the names of other isles. Meursault2004 11:24, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    1. Dialects (orphaned section at the bottom): is it factually accurate to say "The Western Javanese dialect, spoken in West Java (particularly in the north coast region), contains sub-dialects distinct for their Sundanese influences and which still maintain many archaic words. The sub-dialects are Jawa Serang, North coast, Indramayu or Dermayon and Cirebonan or Basa Cerbon."?
I think this sentence is in bad English. Maybe the writer meant to say: "The Western Javanese dialect, spoken in West Java (particularly in the north coast region), contains sub-dialects, which are distinct for their Sundanese language influences and which still contain many archaic words. The sub-dialects are "Serang Javanese", "North coastal Javanese", "Indramayu Javanese" or Dermayon and "Cirebon Javanese" or Basa Cerbon." Or perhaps you can render it into a better sentence! BTW [...] still contain many archaic words, is non NPOV. Meursault2004 00:07, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Javanese Indonesian Dutch English
pit sepeda fiets bicycle
pit montor sepeda motor motorfiets motor bicycle
sepur kereta api spoor, i.e. (rail)track) train

Some answers:

  • Well with former times, it is meant before 1945, the proclamation of Indonesia. In fact Malay is still the lingua franca and national language of Indonesia. The difference is, it is called by another name now. Nowadays it is called Indonesian. It's basically the same language though.
  • Well I don't understand your question, but the table looks good.

Meursault2004 16:52, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)


As of April 8th, here are my outstanding problems:

Bubamara 08:25, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Western Javanese is not Banyumasan

Although Banyumasan is a member of the Western Javanese language group, it is not synonimous. Some western Javanese dialects have different histories than Banyumasan dialect. Meursault2004 08:39, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I'm reverting (by hand) many of the edits equating Banyumasan with Western Javanese. Bubamara 08:41, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] demographic distribution

  • In the table, are there really no figures for the number of Javanese speakers in Jakarta? And is there a reason the total percentage is left out?
  • "It is estimated that at least 33 % of the population is of Javanese descent and as such speak Javanese or have knowledge of it." Is that 33% of the population of Java?

Bubamara 08:41, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well I meant 33 % of the population of Jakarta :-) The exact number of Javanese speakers in Jakarta is unknown so I left it out. Meursault2004 08:47, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Javanese speakers in Lampung

I've just adjusted the number of Javanese speakers in Lampung. Previously it was 80 %, this number proves to be too high. It is about 61 %. Meursault2004 14:28, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Javanese ethnic group

There should also be a page on the Javanese ethnic group, shouldn't there?

Javanese is linked from the Java_(island) entry, in the Ethnic_groups section. However it redirects to the Javanese_language page. Singkong 3 July 2005 12:24 (UTC)

Yes of course. Maybe you would like to write (or start) this article? There is already an article about the Javanese ethnic group in the Indonesian wikipedia. Meursault2004 3 July 2005 16:49 (UTC)
Okay, I'll have time in a few weeks from now, so if no one has made a start I'll have a go at translating that page.
Singkong 5 July 2005 00:02 (UTC)

[edit] Mutual intelligibility

Is Javanese mutually intelligible to any degree with Bahasa Indonesia/Malaysia, Sundanese, Madurese or Balinese? Thanks. ~ Dpr 04:45, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

No, Javanese is rather different than Malay although both are related. The relationship between both languages is similar as the relationship between let's say English and Danish. Javanese is actually also quite distant from Sundanese, Madurese and Balinese. But due to Javanese influence (=colonialism) in the past, these three languages have undergone a heavy process of Javanisation. So in the higher registers of these latter languages, there are many Javanese loanwords. The literary language and the so-called krama variants of Sundanese, Balinese and to a lesser degree Madurese are more or less mutually intelligible with (High) Javanese. So a short conclusion would be that the grammar of Sundanese, Madurese, and Balinese are different from Javanese. However, these four languages have a similar vocabulary. Meursault2004 07:13, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Javanese talk funny. Don't get me wrong, I meant that in an endearing way. The language sounds really cute to my ears.

Okay. It's nice to hear :-) Meursault2004 10:35, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Inferred?

What does inferred mean in the context of the lead section? It should be made clear for people that don't know. Thanks - Taxman Talk 18:48, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Well you'll have to ask Bubamara, I think ... Meursault2004 20:02, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
  • Hi, I tracked it down to this. Basically, an anonymous user (58.178.44.145) changed the 1st paragraph for the worse about 4 months ago. I reverted those offending edits. Thanks for catching that. Bubamara 02:30, 18 January 2006 (UTC)