Talk:James Brooke

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Contents 1 Topics 2 Brooke's birtplace 3 Scandal 4 Move 5 His documented emotional involvements with boys to the exclusion of relationships with women 6 British citizen? 7 "LGBT"

[edit] Topics

Hello, maveric149. Thanks for your help making the new page conform to the proper look and feel.

I changed "was an Indian of English descent" to "was born in India to English parents". Saying he "was an Indian" implies something to me that is not the case since he wasn't an Indian ethnically or by citizenship.

I also just found your message from back when I first discovered wikipedia in August. Thanks for the welcome and encouragement. :)

Tom

Yep. Your wording is better. Your welcome. :) --mav

[edit] Brooke's birtplace

There seems to be some confusion on James Brooke's birthplace with some people giving an Indian birtplace. The 1911 Britanicca gives Coome Grove, near Bath as his birthplace. Could anyone wanting to change the place of birth please provide a reference? --Roisterer 22:15, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Scandal

The article mentions a scandal but doesn't provide any details. It may have been mentioned in my Malaysian history but I can't remember. It would be good if someone can provide details Nil Einne 12:51, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Move

I believe this article should be move, in line with Wikipedia standards, to Sir James Brooke, Rajah of Sarawak. Comments appreciated.--Couter-revolutionary 22:29, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I agree. The subject of the article was a recognised monarch (albeit of a particularly bizarre, and short lived, monarchy). --SandyDancer 02:09, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Right. It should be moved to James of Sarawak, any other suggestions?--Counter-revolutionary 10:43, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I liked your original suggestion more. "James of Sarawak" is not commonly used by academicians when describing Brooke.– Matthew A. Lockhart ^(talk) 19:17, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] His documented emotional involvements with boys to the exclusion of relationships with women

I noticed that the text appended below, posted on August 5th of this year, has been largely deleted, in favor of a homily on the lack of perceptivity of modern observers when faced with our quaint forefathers. Unless specific objections are raised to the sources on which this material is based, I do not see how it can be blocked from the article, nor do I see it as within our rights to preach here against modern gender studies work.

Throughout his life, Brooke's principal emotional bonds were with adolescent boys, while he exhibited a total lack of interest in women. Among his more notable relationships with boys was the one with Badruddin, a Sarawak prince, of whom he wrote, "my love for him was deeper than anyone I knew." Later, in 1848, Brooke fell in love with Charles Grant (grandson of the seventh Earl of Elgin), who had just been recruited, being sixteen at the time. His love was reciprocated by the boy.^[1][2]

Haiduc 11:26, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] British citizen?

What was his nationality, if not British he wouldn't be allowed to use the prefix sir but could use post nominals.--Counter-revolutionary (talk) 22:34, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

The Governor of Labuan and British Counsel General of Borneo is not a British citizen? – Matthew A. Lockhart ^(talk) 09:43, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

The question was really aimed more at his successors. Could they possibly have been British and Christian? --Counter-revolutionary (talk) 19:55, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "LGBT"

There is really no need for this? Anyone agree? --Counter-revolutionary (talk) 21:19, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

The article presently states that he "exhibited a total lack of interest in women". In spite of this he managed to sire a son. I think that there must have been at least some interest in women, but that of course does not preclude the LGBT label. Noel S McFerran (talk) 21:55, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Of course he was interested in women, he married the Sultan of Brunei's daughter! Besides, I think the LGBT thing a bit OTT. --Counter-revolutionary (talk) 22:13, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I believe there is sufficient evidence (in the article itself, already) that he was gay or bisexual. The LGBT category should stay in the article. Henq (talk) 22:56, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I added the tag for the following passages: "Brooke's principal emotional bonds were with adolescent boys", "a Sarawak prince, of whom he wrote, "my love for him was deeper than anyone I knew.", "in 1848, Brooke fell in love with 16 year old Charles Grant, grandson of the seventh Earl of Elgin, who reciprocated his love". Referenced. What is the objection? --Moni3 (talk) 23:13, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think he did have a son - read through the article. His successor was his sister's son. His lack of interest in women plus his attraction to adolescents would argue for the LGBT cat and project. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 23:35, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

The article states that he had a son, but the only proof offered is the British census showing an individual of the right name; there is no reference to James acknowledging him. The article further states that he may have married a Muslim princess, but no proof is offered at all. The relationships with the boys are sourced, in that the historians cited have written about them. BrainyBabe (talk) 06:03, 3 January 2008 (UTC)