User talk:Jack1968ES

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Hello Jack1968ES! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and stick around. If you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. Below are some useful links. Happy editing! Mgm|(talk) 08:23, 4 April 2007 (UTC) Getting Started The five pillars of Wikipedia Wikipedia Tutorial • Sandbox: to test your edits How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Verifiability • Citing sources • Reliable sources Neutral point of view • No original research Copyrights • Fair use • Image use policy Manual of Style • External links • Biographies of living persons What Wikipedia is not • Three-revert rule Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability Spam • Vandalism • Sock puppetry The Community Build consensus • Resolving disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community Portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Pages needing attention • Peer review Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Useful templates • Categories • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Tools • User scripts

[edit] I Ain't Been Shot, Mum!

The Pro and Con sections sound a lot like opinion instead of fact, but to establish notability, it's probably a good idea to look at WP:N. Either establish the notability of the company who made it, or show that the game is widely played. - Mgm|^(talk) 08:22, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

First at all, thanks for answering!

Now on the subject, I added the Pros and Cons for NPOV, i.e., trying to give entrance to opposing points of view and produce a more neutral article.

On notability I've read the guidelines but I can't figure out if the inclusion of the External Links at the end, or more recently the quotations and references, are helpful toward notability

Any thoughts on this? Thanks Jack1968ES 09:07, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

• Notability is usually established by looking at the amount of attention something gets from people not related to it. (By the way, unless someone says otherwise, it's a good thing to assume they aren't keeping an eye on something and inform them if their attention is needed).

Think about the pros and cons like this. If you don't mention the pros, you don't need the cons to balance the POV. I believe the content isn't encyclopedic. It mentions what some unspecified person thinks about the game (see Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words) and it's not verifiable. - Mgm|^(talk) 09:42, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

• As the editor who placed the original notability tag on the article many edits ago (man, there's been a lot of work on this article, or at least the appearance of work :-), in a short time), it appears that notability has come much closer to being proved. It is now past the point where I, as someone not familiar with war games, should properly pass judgment. If someone held a gun to my head and ordered me to make the notability call myself, I would have to say that it now meets WP standards. But I would rather not get into this brewing war (no pun intended) over this article. I simply don't have a dog in this fight. Realkyhick 17:00, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

• • I'll put a note on the article talk page that essentially reiterates what I said above. I hope that will help. I honestly don't understand what all the fuss is about, but then again, I dodn't know if this game is well-known or not within the war-games community. I don't play war games (Freecell and spider solitaire on my computer are about as "gamer" as I get), so I'm likely getting out of my league here. Good luck, and don't let situations like this get you down. Realkyhick 19:16, 4 April 2007 (UTC)