Talk:Jacques Rogge

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Information from Jacques Rogge appeared on Portal:Medicine in the Did you know section on October 8, 2006.

I have search around, but I can't find any reference to Jacques Rogge being knighted. Does anyone else know anything? Rascalb 18:36, Sep 3, 2004 (UTC)

He was made count on July 14th, 2002 (published on July 19th). He was a knight before that (but I don't know since when). I can't find any English references, but many Dutch or French ones (newspapers for example).

Contents 1 Strange statement 2 Last paragraph 3 Bias 4 Pronunciation

[edit] Strange statement

Regarding the statement Rogge also acted decisively in handling the judging and doping scandals, much to the chagrin of several European countries (France, Russia) who had assumed that their influence inside the IOC would prevent their offending athletes from disqualification., could someone provide references rel. to French or Russian athletes being disqualified at the Olympics ? who ? when ? where ? Otherwise please remove statement.Hektor 22:40, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

cannot agree with this statement. I delete it. - Zac Allan 18:29, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

• I assume the article is referring to this [1] incident.QuinnHK 02:30, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

does it matters if it's really cannot exist here as in the place of international agreement? - Zac Allan 18:30, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Last paragraph

Last paragraph is anecdotical and I don't think it fits in a biography article.Hektor 11:18, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bias

It seems to me that this article is heavily biased in favor of Rogge. Could it be edited for neutrality? Potato 93 18:32, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I did a first effort. JH-man (talk) 08:57, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

How is the guy's name properly pronounced? I've heard various variations on IPA: [rɔx], [rɔʒ], and [rɔg]. As far as I can understand it, it would be [ˈʀɔχə] in Dutch (or Flemmish), and [ʁɔʒ] (or [ʁoʒ]?) in French. Does anyone know what is correct, and indeed whether he is a native speaker of French or Dutch? — EJ (talk) 13:13, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

He's a native Flemish speaker. I never looked into IPA, but I assume it would be [rɔgə]. JH-man (talk) 14:22, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. However, now I am puzzled even more. If the name is Flemish, why would it involve the [g] sound, which is essentially nonexistent in Flemish (or any other Dutch dialect, for that matter), apart from a handful of loanwords? Just to make sure we both talk about the same thing: IPA [g] denotes the sound occuring in English words like go, get, dog. Written "g" in Dutch normally represents the sound [x] (or its variant [χ]), which does not exist in standard English, and occurs e.g. in Dutch Gogh, Gouda, Haag, German Bach, Scottish loch, Polish Lech, Spanish Javier, Juan, Serbo-Croatian Bihać, Arabic Khalifa, Russian Khrushchev, and so on. Is Rogge pronounced with the former or with the latter? — EJ (talk) 12:58, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Like I said I have absolutely no experience with IPA... Is there an online resource that converts the code to actual sounds (for complete words?). Anyways: it is pronounced like the G in Gouda, which still differs from German Bach, I would say. Looking at the page on Dutch phonology, it sounds more like ɣ (like in gaan, Dutch for "to go"), to me. So then it would be [rɔɣə]

Incidentally, his name is pronounced exactly the same as the Dutch word for rye, rogge. JH-man (talk) 13:50, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much for the clarification, so [ˈrɔɣə] it is.

I didn't realize that "g" is voiced in standard Dutch, I've always heard it as [χ], but looking at Dutch phonology, that's probably explained by the fact that all the Dutch speakers I know are from the Amsterdam-Utrecht area. (For example, the article on Vincent van Gogh transcribes his name as [ˈvɪnsɛnt vɑn ˈɣɔx], but the recording it provides sounds rather like [ˈfɪnsɛnt fɑ̃ ˈχɔχ] to me, I certainly don't hear any difference between the two "g"s in Gogh as the guy uttered it.)

As for IPA-to-sound conversion, I've never seen such a tool, and I'm afraid it's in general impossible. For one thing, the transcription is usually broad or phonemic, so the sounds denoted by the same letter may actually sound somewhat differently in different languages, or depending on the context. Various subtle things happen when two sounds are adjacent, and complete words or phrases also carry suprasegmental features like intonation and stress which are generally not marked in the transcription, and which are heavily language-dependent. There are text-to-speech synthesizers for specific languages, but these typically do not work with IPA, but with usual orthography (though there is no technical reason for that). If you want to learn IPA, you can look at the IPA page. The article may be difficult to understand if you are not familiar with phonetics terminology, but if you follow the links there are generally sound samples which should clarify it. If you are interested in a specific language, it is much easier to look directly at its phonology page: for eaxmple, I think that the tables in the Dutch phonology article, together with the "one sound–one letter" principle, are more or less all you need to understand transcription of Dutch (though this approach may fail in the presence of regional differences in pronunciation). — EJ (talk) 15:51, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I've added a link to an audio recording of the Dutch word "rogge" (Image:Nl-rogge.ogg). Korg (talk) 00:09, 16 April 2008 (UTC)