Talk:Iyer/Comments

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Perpetual problem article: lots of anti-Iyer vandalism, but also lots of Iyer ego. It would be great if someone evenhanded would take some responsibility for this article on a continuing basis. - Jmabel 07:12, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I have taken the responsibility of maintaining this article :-) -Ravichandar84 12:43, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

This article is quite comprehensive, and the writing style is quite good for the parts that I read. There are no where near enough in-text references for various facts, and stipulations - this needs to be addressed. On another minor note, the image of D.K.Pattammal needs to be moved down to the cultural section - it's one section too high. Please let me know when these areas have been addressed - the referencing is the most important area to address for now. Ncmvocalist 04:49, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

As for your point about the lack of adequate references, let me make it clear that references have been added by me or by other people who edited the article wherever necessary. References and citations havent been provided only for subsections wherein a detailed description of the section is available in a different Wikipedia article or in an external link.A detailed examination of the cases is available below.

For references with regard to the section Migration to West Bengal are available in Vaidika Brahmins link provided

References with regard to the section Iyer Marriage and Traditional Iyer Ethics are available in the reference link prvided in the section

Details and references with regard to Language of Iyers is available in Brahmin Tamil- Ravichandar84 07:09, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

This article suffers from political overtones. The topics Social and political issues and Accusations of Casteism and Racism are purely political. The references are to articles which are basically anti-Brhmin and not directed specifically against Iyers. Such articles do not exist in the pages of other communities. Please see Iyengar. There is only a small article there. Namboodiri.

Most of the articles referred to are about Brahmins in general. I do not understand why this article should act as a mouthpiece for all the anti-Brahmin articles. These articles should be under anti Brahminism.

This article is being used for countering the arguments of the anti-Brahmin articles. The person who is acting as the arbitrator of this article seems to think that Wikipedia is the place to counter political propaganda. Fortunately for Wikipedia all the contributors do not use it as a tool for political propaganda. --Sankarrukku 06:47, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I guess Sankarrukku is not aware of the standards required for writing a Wikipedia article. Iyengar article needs to be looked into, but I cannot spoend my time on both these articles.

I have given adequate references and had made a neutral coverage. The anti-Brahmin movement is more pronunced in Tamil Nadu and references to the origin of the anti-Brahmin movement are worth a mention. Besides I have given adequate references both pro- and anti- Brahmin. I urge the above user to stop replacing "Aryann Invasion Theory" with "Aryan Invasion Myth" and similar changes.Thanks!-Ravichandar84 07:14, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

If all the communities start giving prominence to the views of others about that community and their counter arguments there will be no end to this. I do not find any such references to anti-semitism articles in Judaism

Talking about standard of Wikipedia and so called neutrality does not justify a collection of anti-brahmin articles which should normally belong to the Anti-Brahminism article. In fact there is very little about anti brahminism in Tamil Nadu there. These two sections should be carried over to Anti-Brahminism.

To quote an example: The Coming of Aryans and Brahmins into Kerala by Dr.Zacharias Thondy. What is the relevance of this to Tamil Iyers.

If the Iyers want to claim Aryan origin why should the section be named Aryan Invasion. Whether the Aryans invaded India is not relevant to the theory of Aryan origin.

--Sankarrukku 08:56, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Judaism isnt a race but a religion. You will find mention of Anti-Semitism in the Wikipedia article on Jews.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews#Persecution

I know very well about the extent of Anti-Brahminism which is prevailing in Tamil Nadu. Right from online social networking communities to daily life, there have been numerous instances of anti-Brahmin reactions which I have experienced or heard of.You arent doing any good to society by providing articles which omit such important issues concerning Iyers. A good quality Wikipedia article must have extensive coverage and should be absolutely neutral.

The Aryan Invasion might have occured; it might have not; but then, there have been innumerable historians, archaeologists and anthropogists who have given theories of Aryan migration; moreover, the fact that the anti-Brahmin cadres of the Self-Respect Movement have decided to call themselves the "Dravidar Kazhagam" (Dravidian Party) as opposed to Brahmins whom they regard as Aryans is reason enough to make a mention of the Aryan Invasion Theory and Dravidian politics.

As for the reference link you mentioned, the article on the book 'The Coming of Aryans and Brahmins into Kerala' by Dr.Zacharias Thondy is about the Brahmins of Kerala and about the dealings Namboothris have with non-Malayali Brahmins (of which Iyers form a substantial portion) whom they regard as outsiders.It is not one of the major references for the article but then it is ONE OF THE REFERENCES. -Ravichandar84 14:29, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I was only pointing out that none of the Jewish community pages have a collection of such anti Jewish articles. Please go ahead and collect all the anti Brahmin articles and publish them. With friends like you the community does not need enemies. Having been associated with many organizations where neutrality is a pre-requisite your definition of neutrality is funny to say the least. I have no intention of contributing to this page further.

--Sankarrukku 00:47, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I had made 280+ edits in this article over the past month, spending day and night to rewrite entire sections and raising it from a decrepid state to one of high quality. I found it ridden with propaganda nonsense(both Brahministic and anti-Brahministic) and cleaned it all to remove any hint of bias. It is not in right spirit that you should go about changing "Aryan theory" to "Aryan myth" or blanking out whole sections to represent your opinions. - Ravichandar84 12:33, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

FYI, www.tamilnation.org (from which I've selected most of my reference links related to politics) is a perfectly unbiased source which contains articles by writers like Francois Gautier as well as Gail Omvedt. By the way, let the assessors decide whether this article is biased or not. Thanks -Ravichandar84 00:52, 12 October 2007 (UTC)