Talk:Islam in Indonesia

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[edit] unsigned

removing the Bahá'í Faith since it does not have anything to do with "Islam in Indonesia". The Bahá'í Faith is an independent religion and not a sect of Islam.

[edit] tsunami

why is the tsunami significant to that picture? was the mosque badly destroyed or damaged by it or something? Plugwash 19:19, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

A little slow on the reply, but... I believe the mosque mostly survived, but the nice grounds around it were pretty much destroyed, and I'm sure it sustained some damage. Before-and-after airphotos in this PDF, an a picture showing debris here. CDC (talk) 00:39, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Small complaint

The highest number of Muslims in a single country makes Indonesia the largest Islamic country in the world.

Indonesia isn't an "Islamic country"; it makes me cringe when I see that. Their state is secular, but the majority of the population adheres to Islam. That sentence should read, Indonesia has the largest number of Muslims than any country in the world. If it stays the way it is, then people might confuse Indonesia with true Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia or Iran, where the state is not secular.

If "Islamic country" is used to describe Indonesia on the basis of percentage of population, then the US and Canada will need to be called Christian countries. If that standard is applied to the US, the absurdity would be readily apparent. --TheNationalist 19:42, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Strictly speaking, Indonesia is not a "religious country" as in a "Muslim country" or a "Christian country". There are five official religions in Indonesia that are acknowledged by the state, and the constitution states that Indonesia is a country that is "based on the belief of (a monotheistic) God". Historically, this has been a contentious issue, and it still is to this day. So there is no "separation of state and religion" a la the United States, but it is not based on any one religion. Julius.kusuma 00:53, 13 November 2005 (UTC)
I should get around to reading their constitution more closely when I get some time. By the sounds of it, they are secular in the same way that Turkey is. They just make religion subservient to the state. In any event, my main objection to the previous wording of that sentence is still valid. :-) --TheNationalist 02:52, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] How did Islam find its way into Indonesia?

I've been looking all over Wikipedia trying to find out how Islam entered into Indonesia. I thought this article would talk about the history of this event but it doesn't.

How did Islam find its way into Indonesia? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.205.77.120 (talk • contribs) .

A fair question. There's some discussion of the origins of Indonesian Islam in the "Islam in Indonesian society" section of this article; it's also mentioned briefly in History of Indonesia. I think this article would be improved, though, if it had a separate "History of Islam in Indonesia" section... CDC (talk) 00:35, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
Throughout my elementary education some years ago (during Soeharto's reign, mind you) its been drilled in my head that Islam was brought to Indonesia peacefully by trade with ancient Gujarati traders some time in the 1500s. I recall it constantly repeated that this source is what causes Islam in Indonesia to be culturally different in Indonesia to a significant degree as compared to Middle Eastern Islamism.
Unfortunately I don't have any solid references handy. I suppose I could point to my junior-high textbooks, if I could find them again, but would you trust documentation produced by a repressive government? (here's hoping for a worthy history section in this article...) --Lemi4 11:55, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
There are many opinion about how islam find its way to Indonesia, In many history book which used in many Indonesian school said that Islam came to Indonesia in 13th century which proved by the establishment of the first islamic kingdom of Samudera Pasai in Aceh. But there is also opinion (usually not mention in school's history book) that said Islam came to Indonesia in 7th or 8th century, and in 13th century was the start of the glorius age of Islam in Indonesia

[edit] A new official religion

in 2005 the government has officially recognize the 6th religion in Indonesia, Khong Hu Cu, with Imlek as official (formerly facultative) national holidays.


[edit] Celebes?Moluccas?

What about Islam in Celebes and Moluccas? Sultanate/Kingdom of Gowa? Sultanate of Ternate? Sultanate of Tidore?202.51.228.179 04:02, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent additions to history section

I've started adding material from a bit of reading I've been doing. I've put in a little. I suspect when (and if) i finish adding it, the history section will be deserving of its own article. Merbabu 13:31, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unsourced POV edit

I just copyedited the new unsourced POV revision:

  1. There is no history or whatsoever that Islam modernist wants to take Islam out of pesantren. Please give me any source the de-Islamization of pesantren.
  2. Are you confused who is tradisionalits and modernists? You said traditionalists want to add sharia law into Pancasila and then said that Nahdatul Ulama is one of the tradisionalists. Please read again, since when Gus Dur and NU wants sharia law in Indonesia? They are known as more accepting Western ideas than let say the modernist Muhammadiyah.
  3. I removed the following paragraph:
    Traditionalists seem to have had the upper hand in recent years, as evidenced by an upsurge in religious-oriented behavior such as mosque attendance and women wearing concealing garments such as jilbab, mainly driven by societal pressure. This same societal pressure has seen non-Muslims and non-Muslim businesses in some parts of Indonesia forced to conform to traditionalist Muslim expectations such as standards of dress and even being made to close or change their product range during certain times of the year (notably Ramadan). Traditionalists have led opposition to the United States' policies, especially the war in Iraq and its support for Israel. Some members of the MPR are visibly sympathetic to radicals, and have called for Indonesia's government to boost co-operation with other Muslim nations and groups such as Iran and Hezbollah and retaliate diplomatically against the United States for its perceived slights on Islam. Since 2003 there have been a series of very large and well-attended demonstrations in Jakarta and other large cities against the United States and other Western countries. The most notable were during the conflict last year between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon, and during the Danish cartoon controversy. Attendants at these demonstrations often display banners and signs with anti-American or anti-Semitic slogans, and are often intended to express solidarity with Muslim terrorist groups such as Hezbollah and Hamas.
    Please give the source of those POV paragraphs. If you can find a reliable source and then you can put them back there so I can verify whether your statements are correct. Let me then spell out one by one to which source I want to see for the above paragraph:
    1. Traditionalists ... by an upsurge in religious-oriented behavior such as mosque attendance and women wearing concealing garments such as jilbab, mainly driven by societal pressure. → is mosque attendance an upsurge only for traditionalists? all moslems go to mosque, do you understand Islam? and please elaborate the bold part with a reliable source.
    2. Traditionalists have led opposition to the United States' policies, ... → all Indonesian majority oppose US policy, not only traditionalist Moslem. why do I sense you as anti-traditionalists here?
    3. Some members of the MPR are visibly sympathetic to radicals,... and retaliate diplomatically against the United States → who? how many? give me a reliable source.
    4. Attendants at these demonstrations often display banners and signs with anti-American or anti-Semitic slogans, and... → please give me the source of the bold part, but bear in mind the difference between anti-Semitic (to Jews people) and anti-Israel (as a nation). — Indon (reply) — 11:22, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

All in all, when you add some materials, please bear in mind in WP:NPOV, WP:V, WP:ATT, WP:RS and WP:OR. Have you read all of those guidelines? — Indon (reply) — 10:40, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed from 'Religion' section in Indonesia

I've removed the following from the 'religion' section in Indonesia due to length concern - it could probably find a home here.

One notable difference includes a generally greater level of freedom and higher social status for women.[1] The majority of Indonesian Muslims are generally accepting of differing religious practices and interpretations within their own faith.[1] Although the form of worship may differ, Muslims in Indonesia are typically devout; many have made the pilgrimage to Mecca, for example. More Orthodox Muslims believing in a stricter adherence to Sharia make up a smaller but growing percentage of the population;[2] the wearing of a jilbab, for example, is becoming more common.[3] There is a small but outspoken hard-line Islamist presence in Indonesia, some of which seek to establish Indonesia as an Islamic state. Most Indonesian Muslims, however, are wary of these movements.[4]
  1. ^ a b Fajrul Falaakh, Mohammad (2002-12-11). Islam in Pluralist Indonesia: Challenges Ahead. The Centre for Independent Studies. Retrieved on 2006-10-15.
  2. ^ Puno, Ricardo V.. "A neighbor in ferment", ABS CBN News, 2007-03-07. Retrieved on 2007-03-09. (English) 
  3. ^ Bayuni, Endy. "Cute Veil! Where'd You Get It?", The Jakarta Post, 2007-03-02. Retrieved on 2007-03-09. (English) 
  4. ^ Bayuni, Endy M. (26 November 2003-11-26). Terrorism Undermines Political Islam in Indonesia. YaleGlobal Online. Yale Center for the Study of Globalization. Retrieved on 2007-04-27.; Pan, Esther (July 12, 2005). INDONESIA: Local Elections. Council on Foreign Relations. Retrieved on 2007-04-27.; LaMoshi, Gary (Jun 14, 2006). Indonesia strikes back at Islamist hardliners. AsiaTimes Online. Asia Times Online Ltd. Retrieved on 2007-04-27.

--Merbabu 13:06, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Problem

The image of the Banda Aceh mosque obstructs some text, making it appear the article claims 88% of the population label themselves Protestants... I don't know how to fix it.

I've fixed it --Merbabu 22:48, 29 May 2007 (UTC)