Help talk:IPA for Russian
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Just as there is a template {{IPAEng|}} there could be an {{IPAru|}} that links to here. This would be a nice place to set up procedures for transcribing Russian in a consistant manner across Wikipedia. — Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 15:58, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, a place to set up procedures for transcribing Russian should not be located in mainspace. Cf. Romanization of Russian and Wikipedia:Romanization of Russian.—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 16:53, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
- Huh? We're talking about IPA. Maybe Help:IPA might be a better place. — Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 18:47, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
- I know we are talking about IPA :) I used romanization as an example of the encyclopedic article being separate from Wikipedia's guidelines. Procedures (of romanization, trascription, etc.) should not be set up in mainspace (a suggestion which I, perhaps mistakenly, derived from your original comment). Help space is, of course, another possibility. Cheers,—Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • (yo?); 20:31, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
- Huh? We're talking about IPA. Maybe Help:IPA might be a better place. — Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 18:47, 7 March 2008 (UTC)
There is no difference in pronunciation of stressed vowels in "жест" and "цель", "трава" and "палка", "пуля" and "чуть". At least any differences are absolutely incomprehensible by a native speaker (not a linguistics professional). As such, I believe there shouldn't be any difference in pronunciation charts for these sounds in general audience encyclopedia. Conversely, there are quite pronounced differences between unstressed vowels in "тяжелый" and "этап"; "дышать", "жена" and "сердце". Bottom line: the table should be fixed (not being familiar with IPA, I can't do this myself). --Dp074 (talk) 01:48, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
- Allophony usually means that speakers don't notice. Besides, vowel allophony is one of its more noticeable aspects of Russian (that and palatalization). In addition, a number of the allophones for the vowels are those that English speakers make contrasts in (the difference between [ɛ] and [e], [æ] and [ɑ]). — Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 04:47, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Although vowel allophony is an important aspect of Russian pronunciation, which phone a phoneme will be realized as is predictable from its environment. The table should probably make clear the distinction between the relatively small number of vowel phonemes that should be used in a phonemic transcription of Russian (e.g., жест /ʒɛst/, цель /t͡sɛlʲ/, пять /pʲatʲ/, чуть /t͡ʃʲutʲ/) and the much larger number of vowel phones to be used in a phonetic transcription (e.g., жест [ʐɛst], цель [t͡selʲ], пять [pʲætʲ], чуть [t͡ɕʉtʲ]). Also, /o/ is often realized as a clearly audible [oə], which is not indicated in the current table. Furthermore, if you're going to provide such a narrow phonetic transcription for the vowels, you might also want to note that phonemically nonpalatalized (or "plain") consonants are often affirmatively velarized/pharyngealized, so that нос and нёс are phonemically /nos/ and /nʲos/, but phonetically [n̴oəs̴] and [nʲoəs̴] (or [nˠoəsˠ] and [nʲoəsˠ]), respectively. And what about the labial offglide in, e.g., вы [v̴ʷɨ]? My point is that not everyone always wants to show the fine details of Russian phonetics; sometimes, a phonemic transcription is enough, and the table as it currently stands gives the impression that Russian has a lot more phonemes than it actually does. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hizkuntzalari (talk • contribs) 11:07, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
