Talk:Internationalized domain name

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[edit] Fair use

The fair use bot warnings make this page hard to read, I refactored it moving four warnings into this section, and moving another section created 2008 near the end, where folks interested in fresh issues might find it faster. Unrelated, it's nice to see that somebody found the blog entry about the 11 test TLDs last year. ;-) --217.184.142.58 (talk) 21:11, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:2ask2.gif

Image:2ask2.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:32, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:HindiIDN.PNG

Image:HindiIDN.PNG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 08:43, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Ukrainian IDN.png

Image:Ukrainian IDN.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 19:11, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Chinese-domain-name.png

Image:Chinese-domain-name.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 21:48, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spoof

As reported on slashdot, IDN is at the root of a new way to spoof URLs. See http://www.shmoo.com/idn/ for examples and an explanation. If this problem is not quickly worked around, I would suggest mentioning it in the article. If the bug proves difficult to overcome, it could mean a lot for this standard's widespread adoption. Bgruber 19:44, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

It should be mentioned anyway, since it has always been a major objection to any form of IDN. But it needs to be put into the context of the general debate about IDNs, which we don't have anything on at present. (The specific example given on http://www.shmoo.com/idn/ could be put in the IDNA article. Currently it's in Punycode, which is the wrong place.) --Zundark 20:05, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Safari has a fix in place for spoofs. Certain spoofable character sets are rendered in punycode to prevent fraud. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 00:25, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] possible first page using IDN

http://räksmörgås.josefsson.org/ Should this be added as a small piece of trivia? :) porges 04:08, Mar 31, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] "label"

"In IDNA, the term internationalized domain name means specifically any domain name consisting only of labels to which the IDNA ToASCII algorithm can be successfully applied."

Will readers know what 'label' means here? What does it mean?

Joaquin

The meaning is explained in the first paragraph of the "ToASCII and ToUnicode" section, so I've added a forward reference to that section. --Zundark 08:11, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Verbal diarrhea

Diarrhea, possibly one of the most unpleasant words in English. Anyway, coming to an article about IDNs, am I really interested in "about:config" settings in Mozilla, or somebody registering paypal.com? I would remove that whole section on spoofing concerns; it can be treated with a simple link to the full article (which seems not to expand on the subject at all.) Miken32 23:48, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Examples

If the Wikipedia is to be linking to examples of domains using IDNA, should they really all be advertisers' sites? It would be better to link to, well, anything else. --holizz 11:03, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I did clean it up, but they have since been added back. --Ben 10:46, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

When Listing Examples for this page, Do not put links to sites that redirect to pages that aren't IDNs!. --68.239.46.12

Agreed. This is the sole reason why I started http://IDNSearch.net - to showcase real-life (not just ads landing pages) IDN-accessible sites. -- WilliamTan

I just poked my head into the discussion page here for the first time to mention my concerns about the examples and external links becoming far to large. Even the IDNSearch.net site, while good intentioned, looks too much like a free-for-all link page for my liking. There are already two images that show examples. Maybe the entire "example" section should be delted? Looks like too much of a spam-magnet to me. Wrs1864 13:24, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Safari

Safari 2.0.4 also treats the spoofed URL as http://www.xn--pypal-4ve.com/

[edit] External link spam

A large portion of the external links in this article are just basically spam. The ad-to-content ratio is laughably skewed, and sometimes the domain exists just to sell one product and offers no other information. I've deleted a few so far, but I think many more could still be evaluated and then removed. The list was incredibly long anyway, and it still is pretty big after my edits. Thoughts? -Markusbradley 21:56, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The first IDNA domains went up a few days ago. Where are they?

ICANN press releases about the first test IDNA domains going live appeared on the AP feed a few days ago.[1] But I'm unable to find a link to the test domains. If someone can find the links, they should go in the article. --John Nagle 15:26, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

It sounds like they might not be available until 15 October (see the ICANN announcement). By the way, they aren't the first IDNA domains; they're the first top-level IDNA domains. --Zundark 16:29, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
In fact, the websites are already up, but they're not open to the public yet (they ask for a password). There's a list of them here (although I haven't verified this list). --Zundark 17:56, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Here's the list of links (now verified). But, as mentioned above, they currently require a password for access.

--Zundark 19:11, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

The password protection has been removed now, but I'm still not sure whether it's appropriate to add the links to the article. (The sites are just MediaWiki wikis, and are not much use to people who don't speak any of the languages. They do, however, provide a simple demonstration of the IDNA TLDs.) --Zundark 14:52, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
In fact, there's a English-language gateway site at http://idn.icann.org, which I'll add to the article. --Zundark 15:47, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Missing info on 'Non-IDNA or non-ICANN registries that support non-ASCII domain names' section

In the last paragraph it says that during the "ICANN december meeting". The text doesnt mention the year. I thought it was important but couldn't find out the year. Just pointing it out if someone else wants to fix the article...200.84.244.129 (talk) 11:42, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

It was 2006. But this paragraph was in the wrong section, and the meeting is already mentioned in the timeline anyway, so I've just removed it. --Zundark (talk) 14:07, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] External links

Why are you guys deleting some of the things i do on this article? Im trying to improve the article with better images on idn domains and to update the external links, so stop deleting what i do. : (

The link to the www.idnresearchtool.com has been removed several times. I feel the tool is very relavent to those reading the IDN Wiki because it provides functionality that is useful to those who are planning on registering IDNs. Although it is a commercial tool, it is unique and useful in its comprehensive functionality.

A separate case: On 13:58, May 6, 2008, User:Podzap restored an external link to http://idnchannel.com/, saying in the edit note, "IDNChannel is a discussion forum to introduce people to IDN, in the same way idnnews is a website to provide IDN news. People should be able to find a link to a discussion forum. What gives?". On 15:33, May 6, 2008, User:Wrs1864 reverted that restore, with the edit note, "please read WP:EL about what external links are for. wikipedia is WP:NOT a directory". This note is to provide a place for a discussion about this, if one is necessary. --Jdlh | Talk 19:46, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Sorry for not having replied here, I'm unfortunately on the road and my wikipedia time has been sporadic. Please stop adding web forums to the external links. As per the WP:EL, in particular Wikipedia:El#Links_normally_to_be_avoided number 10, discussion forums generally should be avoided. The purpose of external links is to provide information that can not be incorporated into the article, but information in discussion forums can change on a hourly basis. As I've also mentioned in my edit summaries, wikipedia is WP:NOT a directory. The purpose of the article is to discuss the subject, not to provide a directory of all available resources. For that, it is generally recommended to use (or create) something in the dmoz.org web directory. Wrs1864 (talk) 19:26, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
No thanks for your persistence in removing the link to IDNChannel, wrs1864. IDNChannel is a legitimate discussion forum for IDN and many of the experts in the community are there. We help newcomers to learn about IDN, as well as discuss issues related to IDN news, IDN events, etc. The discussion forum is very on topic for this article as a resource where readers can go after they have finished reading. In the IDN news site that you don't seem to like to remove, the information can also change just as fast. I bet I can find a whole lot of links to discussion forums in wikipedia articles, so please leave mine alone unless you are going to clean the entire wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Podzap (talk • contribs) 22:07, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
yes, there are other forum links, but that doesn't justify this one. See the Wikipedia:Other stuff exists page. I'll go take another look at the external links, you may be right that the news link should be removed also. Please help keep wikipedia articles clean and up to the standards and help remove those other web forums. Thanks Wrs1864 (talk) 22:21, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Podzap, thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. And thank you for taking up the discussion here, rather than in edit comments. My opinion is that whether an external link serves Wikipedia's interests and satisfies the Wikipedia:External links policy is frequently a judgement call. In this article, there are a lot of external links, and my sense is that we've crossed the line. Multiple external links in this article are probably excessive and should be removed. Thus I agree with Wrs1864 that IDNChannel.com should not be listed. Also, you refer to IDNChannel as "mine". I take it from this that you are the owner or operator of that site. I think this might put you in a Wikipedia:Conflict of interest. Are you sure that you are adding a link to IDNChannel solely in order to "produce a neutral, reliably sourced encyclopedia" (from WP:COI)? Or are you effectively making this article "a forum for advertising or self-promotion"? That's the tough question you should ask yourself, I believe. Consider reading WP:COI's "How to avoid COI edits". --Jdlh | Talk 01:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The "Example of Arabic IDN" image is barely readable

The "Example of Arabic IDN" image is barely readable. 202.78.240.7 (talk) 23:54, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough. If you click on the image, you see it in its full 373-pixel width, which is a little better. --Jdlh | Talk 19:14, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Why are they not directly supported by the next DNS standards?

I seems like an aggressive promotion of the english language. Are there sources backing up that is impossible to transitionally go to directly supporting unicode domains on DNS? I would find it extremely hard to believe that is 'impossible'. Only a non-scientific mind non versed in computer technology would make such outlandish claims. --Leladax (talk) 15:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

You are right, it is not "impossible" to directly use unicode, but the article doesn't claim it is impossible. It was, however, judge by experts working in this area to be very hard to change all the applications that currently assume that domain names (hostnames, actually) are restricted to a subset of ASCII and create a new standard (IDN) would be easier. As far as the use of english, read the History of the Internet article. It was no more an "aggressive promotion of english" than Minitel was an "aggressive promotion of french". Wrs1864 (talk) 18:11, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
I tend to think it's ignorance of only-english speaking people. They just don't care/understand/see how it is, how ugly it is to speak e.g. on tv to kids a domain name in an English manner; mainly the americans that largely control the internet base. --Leladax (talk) 22:57, 12 June 2008 (UTC)