Talk:International Virtual Aviation Organisation

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Articles for deletion
This page was previously nominated for deletion.
Please see prior discussions before considering re-nomination:

I just proposed a cleaned-up edit which should be WP:NPOV compatible (as suggested in the AFD discussion). Feel free to revert. --airborne 08:30, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

A lot of authors of this article seem to think that

  • Wikipedia is an extension of the IVAO website
  • Wikipedia is a great opportunity to place ads and side blows to competing organizations.

As anyone might guess, this is not the case, but has been the reason why the article was tagged for immediate deletion (and was actually deleted, and rightfully so in my humble opinion). Pretty please, with sugar on top, remain objective when writing for Wikipedia. --airborne 21:31, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] IVAO is not a Game

I am a former member of IVAO.aero. IVAO is not considered as a game. It is a simulation to make flying as real as it can get. I vote for the deletion of the MMORPG tag. --T-9000 13:38, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I concur. It is a simulation, it Could be called a game, but it is definetly not a mmorpg.

I differ, IVAO is a game, it serves no other purpose. However, the removal of the MMORPG tag was right, it is not a classic role-playing game. --airborne 23:57, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

IVAO is surely not "a game". It is an organization. Saying it's a game is like saying Microsof is a game. It is an organization which provides technological, organizational and educational support for online simulation of air traffic. Since the online operations are based on real life procedures/rules, it may have its entertainment aspect, but it is also highly educational in the field of aviation. --Cpt pickard (talk) 01:27, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:IVAO NEW.png

Image:IVAO NEW.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:15, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Link to site

As we have www.ivao.org and www.ivao.aero, which site should be linked? They were both once part of the same organization. I believe both should be linked until a reference can be found to indicate otherwise. Icemotoboy (talk) 23:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Fully agree that both should be listed for encyclopedic reasons because both have relevance to the topic. Nevertheless, both should be accompanied by a description of their status. (aero belongs to the organization, org to a considerably smaller group of people who disagreed with a certain phase of the development.) --Cpt pickard (talk) 01:30, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sources to establish IVAO notability

Scroll to the bottom of the Afd debate. It's going to be hard, but there are plenty of direct and cursory mentions of IVAO in scholarly and popular press. They can be added to the page in order to make sure that the article doesn't get deleted. Protonk (talk) 20:35, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm keen to help, I'll try and see if I can find any in books. I managed to find quite a few for VATSIM so I'm keen to take on the challenge finding them for this article. I think also we need to deal with the split in IVAO better in this article to ensure NPOV, I'm not sure how easy that is going to be to achieve.Icemotoboy (talk) 22:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
This is probably the best bet of the bunch. Can't find that google news article from the new straights times (which isn't really a major source) in lexis-nexis. Protonk (talk) 23:56, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Also this [1] has a link to an independent source arguing for an axpansion of things like IVAO, but again, not a huge source covering the organization. Protonk (talk) 23:58, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
  • I think thats a pretty interesting paper. I've take a statement from it, sourced it, and placed in the header. Its a faily bold move, but I've taken the text directly from the paper. Do you think thats okay? It might be better to put that statement further down, but I felt that it helps establish why the subject is notable. Will work on the other references. I also added a new references template that I think looks cleaner. Thanks for hunting down the references! Icemotoboy (talk) 06:10, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
  • No problem. Just be sure to note the page in the footnote of the ref. Protonk (talk) 06:16, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Here Click view HTML and scroll down. Page 13 says (in frenchSpanish) that IVAO has at least 38,000 subscribers. But it would be nice to get some translations to see how widely this book was published, by whom, etc. Protonk (talk) 00:04, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sources for explanation and not neccesarily establishment of notability

Remember, both the APA and harvard notation support referencing of published software as citations. There are a few {{Fact}} tags (well, more than a few) attached to statements that can easily be verified by showing that the appropriate software exists. ex:

  • Computer Software

Ludwig, T. (2002). PsychInquiry [computer software]. New York: Worth.

Likewise, for findings of fact (but not for notability cases), ex: "This flight-simulation program communicates with the IVAO network servers over the Internet.[citation needed]", it is perfectly legit to use IVAO documents (or the flight sim manual), rather than a secondary/tertiary source.

stuff like this, however:

IVAO membership has been claimed to be approximately 80,000 members as of October 5th, 2007.[citation needed] In 2005, membership was estimated to be about 38,000.[2] The membership covers most parts of the world, but most members connect from Europe. Local IVAO structures (called divisions) exist in various parts of the world, usually one division for each country. These divisions are managed by local members holding management, support, maintenance and training responsibilities for that local region.[citation needed] There are approximately 8000 connections per day, with peak numbers of simultaneous connections at 700-900.[citation needed] The maximum number of simultaneous connections was 1944 on January 5, 2008.[citation needed]

will probably need a reliable, third party source. If such a source doesn't exist for those claims, we might as well modify them to fit the existing source material. Protonk (talk) 16:16, 30 April 2008 (UTC)