Talk:International Computers Limited

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ah, happy days! I recall my university computing centre had a 1903T and a 1905E in the late 70s. Many was the time I was called out in the middle of the night to fix a system failure on the railways' 2982's back in the 80s.... -- Arwel 20:42, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Hey! I think you've just remembered some further model numbers. Do remember to add them to the hardware list... Thanks, Ian Cairns 21:04, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I still work for Fujitsu in one of the famous ICL sites - this was a great British institution! Okay 22:59, 03 Nov 2004 (GMT)

I worked for ICL at the time of the STC merger and heard Corfield tell us that he wanted our marketing skills!! We weren't bemused we were amazed!! Wilmot1 04:15, 1 March 2007 (UTC) (Oh and no I'm not that Wilmot)

Which one are you then? :-) TraceyR 13:18, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] System 4 memories

I worked as a Computer Operator for Rank Hovis McDougall Ltd, Willesden, NW London, from 1977 to 1985.

When I joined they had two System 4 machines - a 4/50 (used for development and testing) and a 4/72 (used for production processing.)

The 4/50 had 128k - (yes k!) of mainstore with the 4/72 having 512k - you could open the memory cabinet and see the tiny ferrite rings with the three 'on', 'off', 'parity check' wires running through them.

During the day the 4/72 ran on-line TP systems for Order Processing, Factory Accounting, Data Entry, Product Promotions, Material Assets and Factory recipes.

The TP systems were accessed by various distribution depots and factories across the UK via GPO private lines.

At close of business the 4/72 ran the overnight batch processing for order processing, sales ledger, invoicing and factory accounting.

Computer operating in those days was an exercise in both mental and physical dexterity.

For example - each program was initiated manually from the console; programs had to be run in the correct sequence due to file dependencies; machine resources such as main store, tape decks and disc drives had to be used to maximise efficiency; printers required constant attention and media changes - anyone remember the printer loops used to control head of form and printing formats?

Interchangeable discs (60mb of data and weighing around 12lbs) also ensured a strong right arm!

On top of all this there was the constant noise of 1970's air conditioning, the clatter of printers and card readers that sounded like air raid sirens.

We used to lip read one another like 1930's mill workers...

Then there was all the dodgy technology - tape decks that could write but not read/read but not write (despite the avid attention of engineers who were determined to 'sort it out') - or card readers that spat out the unfamiliar with venomous dexterity.

And yet...

After nearly 30 years in the business - despite the promised benefits of distributed, departmental and personal computing - I still think these were the best systems I've ever worked on.

As a Business Analyst once said to me "When you only make a penny a packet profit on 'Bisto' - you need to be efficient.'"

I think we were.

Thank you System 4 - I'm still blagging it in the 21st century.

0_F_CLOSE

TEST YOUR SYSTEM 4 MEMORY

1) What was an F_OPT?

2) What did the utility program xxxJ5050A00p do? (I think the xxx bit was site dependent)

3) 0_D_P displayed what?

4) What was the command 0_J used for and on what type of disc?

5) What did the result code 4966 mean?

6) Even easier - what did the result code 4166 mean?


[edit] COMPANY NAME

I think it should be "International Computers Limited" not "...Ltd". How does one change the name of the page?

Michael Kay

By "moving" the article, in effect Wiki creates a new page called "... Limited" and keeps the old " .... Ltd" page as a link to the new one. However, I suggest you click on "What links here" before you move it, to check that the links don't break.Pyrotec 19:07, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

At one stage it was ICL Plc.Iccaldwell (talk) 18:13, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

I seem to remember that being for a period of a year, some legal manoeuvre to do with the pension scheme, or maybe I am conflating two events? Pterre (talk) 15:34, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
The time I am remembering was in the late 70s.Iccaldwell (talk) 19:10, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Naming conventions (companies) frowns on plc or Ltd in article names. In my experience the company was sometimes referred to informally just as 'International Computers', but much more commonly as 'ICL'. Without the 'Limited' it wouldn't have been ICL, so I would agree that the article should be called "International Computers Limited". Pterre (talk) 13:51, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

I just read the last paragraph of Wikipedia:Naming conventions (companies) again. By comparison with British Overseas Airways Corporation - which requires the word 'Corporation' in the article title because it was generally known as BOAC - it should be "International Computers Limited". Pterre (talk) 14:02, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Looking at my archive from my time at ICL (1977-80). On its documents it's either "ICL" , "International Computers Limited" or interestingly "International Computers Group" but never "International Computers Ltd". So I agree the article name should be "International Computers Limited". Iccaldwell (talk) 17:38, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

OK, unless anyone objects (PDQ), I hereby nominate myself to rename the article, probably tomorrow. It will take a little while for me to mend the many "what links here" links, unless they already point to the correct name (which at present is a redirect). Pterre (talk) 20:28, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

There's not that much mending that will be needed. Just delete the the current "International Computers Limited" page, move this page to that name, and I think there's just 2 redirect pages that will need to be pointed to the new name. The other pages that point here will be automatically redirected. -- Arwel (talk) 01:59, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I've now renamed the article and edited most of the links to "Ltd." and to "Ltd". That leaves Category:International Computers Ltd, which includes 16 articles. So far I've just edited the 'main article pointed' to by this category. does anyone think this should also be changed? There s no 'move' button for categories. Pterre (talk) 21:06, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Glenn Read

I dont understand something about this page - it states that ICL in part was a merger of Elliot Automation and Marconi Computers, but I worked for GEC computers which was very much a merger of Elliot Automation and Marconi Computers and was in the old Elliot Borehamwood site - can anyone shed any light on this discrepency.
I think there is some confusion here between Elliot and English Electric (who had the System 4). I certainly don't remember being told about Marconi at all in my Induction (we did a potted history of the company) but it was nearly thirty years ago so probably unreliable memory. Wilmot1 04:15, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
English Electric was at one time "English Electric Leo Marconi" (EELM). They merged with Elliott to become "English Electric Computers"; it was this company which merged with ICT to become ICL. I remember working on an Elliot 803 emulator on 1900s - Elliott is in the pedigree. Have a look here [1], where the Borehamwood site is shown to have become part of Marconi TraceyR 06:42, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Now that you remind me - yes that's correct. Wilmot1

[edit] Fujitsu

Internal gossip at the time of the Series 39 launch had it that the development code name "Estriel" came about as a result of the Japanese having difficulty pronouncing the actual code name, which was "S3L". Can anyone confirm this? Elio1 12:52, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

- it's a nice story and it's probably half true, but I think it belongs here on the talk page rather than in the main article! Michael Kay

Mhkay 10:31, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh it's true Wilmot1 04:15, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Office Power

Any one remember this?. This was a word processor (no colour) and email system. I used it in 1990-92 at Nortel.

Office Power was originally a development by Concurrent Computer Corporation in the US for their Department of Transportation (I think!). This was licenced to part of STC and when the merger between STC and ICL happened that (and other IT elements of STC) were transferred to ICL management. Subsequently OfficePower moved forward to work on a standard Unix platform with various tweaks and changes along the way. I can't remember what happened to CCC but I believe ICL finished up with the exclusive rights.

There was of course major competition with ICL's other "Office Automation" offerings of the time EXAC and DRS-Office. As in many cases ICL designers took the best engineering/technological solution only to be overtaken by (US) market power.

Office Power was implemented in Arabic for Egypt and, I believe, in Japanese. It was very easy to use, especially the dynamic 'soft-key' displays for the function keys. --TraceyR 15:23, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
I have added brief mentions of OfficePower and CCI (Computer Consoles Inc - not Concurrent Computer Corp!). The source is an ancient copy of STC Gazette found in my loft - how sad is that - so should be reasonably accurate! I used OP for several years - WP, X400 mail, 20-20 spreadsheets and UDAPS (user defined applications). Eventually dragged kicking and screaming into the world of MS Office and Exchange when Y2K was used to terminate OP. Pterre 12:04, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Written like an advert?

Anna.kolesnik: Would you expain why you have tagged this article as being like an advert? Without a justification for your opinion it is hard to know what, if anything, needs to be changed. Don't forget that ICL no longer exists under that name, so there is no danger of the article being an advertisement. --TraceyR 15:23, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree this is not an advert. I have added {{hangon}} to the main article.
If she can't be bothered to justify her action, we are justified in ignoring her. --TraceyR (talk) 14:40, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Locations

Like some similar articles, the company history is dehumanised by making little or no reference to where its base(s) and/or production facilities were. For example, ICL employed 2,000 people at Winsford, Cheshire. 82.36.228.136 21:02, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

A Locations section has been added JXM 00:27, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Amongst others too numerous to mention, notable locations include: Feltham (at least 5 sites that I know of), Basingstoke (Defence?), Winnersh, Dublin (IRE09, the ITC), Slough, Wakefield (call centre). Besides superstructure and Unix development, Bracknell also notably had Retail (BRA02), PC design (BRA04) and ICL UK's posh Waterside Park HQ (BRA05/06). Manchester also had a noteworthy (award-winning) manufacuring plant at Ashton (MAN01?) and training at the Arndale Centre (MAN12) until notably blown up by the IRA. And of course overseas R&D/manufacturing sites including Utica, Reston, Irvine etc.Pterre 12:23, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Hedsor House (senior exec. presentations etc) also deserves a mention, and definitely Moor Hall at Cookham (training centre prior to Beaumont). --TraceyR 14:10, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] ICL patent for "Microprogrammed data processing systems "

A patent for "Microprogrammed data processing systems" is documented at [2]; the patent is assigned to ICL, the authors being

  • Whitby, Anthony Maurice (Hitchin, EN)
  • Harper, John Martin (Hitchin, EN)
  • Procter, Brian John (Welwyn, EN)

Can anyone shed light on this patent - was it describing the work which resulted in the 2903 (it mentions a DDE facility)? What was its overall significance? Did it bring in revenue for ICL? Whatever, this would appear to be a very significant patent indeed and should perhaps be mentioned in the appropriate place in ICL-related articles. --TraceyR 15:55, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I think the date (1974) makes it much too early for the 2903. Much more likely to be related to New Range. Mhkay (talk) 11:59, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Photo call

A photo of the building in which the Hamburg offices of ICL Germany were once (long ago) situated has appeared at the head of this article, showing a rather derelict "ICL International Computers" sign. IMHO this picture, while accurate, doesn't do ICL justice. Has anyone a photo of e.g. Bridge House North/South, West Gorton, Bracknell (or in fact any other ICL building! :-) ) which would be more representative? --TraceyR (talk) 10:45, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

I have various old publications with photos - BRA01, KID01, STE04, Beaumont, probably MAN12. These would all be copyright but it might be worth asking FJ if they could be used - does anyone have a suitable contact? The only one of my own shows BRA01 end-on in Fujitsu days; it does not show the FJ logo, but this probably rather defeats the object. Pterre (talk) 13:26, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
Also I remember receiving by email (Earwig?) a photo someone took of the ICL sign coming down from one of the Manchester sites - probably MAN05. Some serious archive digging required to see if I've still got it, and who sent it. Pterre (talk) 13:29, 9 March 2008 (UTC)