Talk:Insomnia/Archive 1
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US Bias
I've removed this from the introductory copy: According to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, approximately 60 million Americans each year suffer from insomnia. Insomnia tends to increase with age and affects about 40 percent of women and 30 percent of men [1].
It seems to presuppose that this entry is disussing insomnia in America alone, rather than in general terms. Perhaps it can be reintegrated if someone can find pertinent statistics from other countries that be included in a sub-section.
I'm not American but I do think that information is relevent, we obviously can't have the numbers from every country and having any one countries numbers would seem to be biased for that country. So I don't think its there for bias but rather convenience. I'd appreciate it if you put those numbers back, and if you find relevent numbers for other countries later add those Highlandlord 18:42, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Okay, Highlandlord. Agree that information is relevant. Have reinstated it as a sub-section near the end. Section title is a mite clumsy, but I can't think of anything else at the moment.
Fatal insomnia
Sorry if this sounds stupid, but couldn’t a person help to cure fatal familial insomnia by getting nightly injections of a sedative?- EKN
That's generally not the problem - sedatives induce unconsciousness, not sleep. The difference is vast... refer to the relevant pages. -EJPD
Look at the article for Fatal Familial Insomnia.
Really, sedatives such as [diazepam] do nothing for them. Quite odd, rare disease. - BDC
Primary Insomnia
The article should address all forms of insomnia in a single location. I added a link to the June 2005 (August 2005 final report) of the NIH state of the science consensus report on manifestations and management of chronic insomnia. The report recognizes the term "co-morbid insomnia" rather than secondary insomnia. I also added a link to a nicely written entry from the National Sleep Foundation (U.S.) on insomnia. ~~Les Schmaltz~~
Fixed wording
I changed the double 'such as' statements which were awkward, if not grammatically incorrect.
Reverted useful info on using meditation to alleviate this problem
Someone removed the earlier section on the use of metta meditation to alleviate this problem, claiming: "Removed Occult Buddhist meditation advertising from middle of medical article."
Some points:
1) I have now included a VERIFIABLE PUBLISHED SOURCE for the information in this section.
2) Wikipedia (WP) is not a 'medical' encyclopaedia, or even a 'scientific' one - it is a compendium of human knowledge. Not all the information has to be formally scientific.
3) Which leads to the most important point: people often seek out WP because it provides just that kind of 'commonsense', USEFUL knowledge that isn't provided in formal encyclopaedias because such knowledge is regarded as too informal and perhaps even 'unscientific'. Yet it is still useful. And that is my main point in including this info: it is USEFUL for people. The person who cut the section out should think for a moment and realise that people actually do seek out articles like this one for help in relieving these kinds of things, including, but also beyond, their doctors' STANDARD, FORMAL advice. If they want exclusively MEDICAL, or SCIENTIFIC information, there are plenty of other sources. Wikipedia is an OPEN, BROAD compendium of ALL the human knowledge that has a reasonable amount of agreement as to it's validity and relevance. THAT is is it's strength. Otherwise, why bother? To read, or to write.
4) Buddhism is not 'occult'! This person clearly demonstrates not only their prejudice here, but also their ignorance. It's obvious from what they've written that they need to examine their real INTENTIONS in changing the page. Were they based on a desire to help other people by providing accurate, relevant and useful information - or was it something closer to prejudice, arrogance and possibly even a bit of enmity?
5) The section did not attempt to 'advertise' anything. For a start, it's author (myself) doesn't belong to any religious tradition, even though he has studied many. Simply reading the text makes this quite clear.
6) Returning finally to the point about people using WP as a source of the broader, less formal, more commonsense/everyday, more USEFUL knowledge, the reason I included this information is because I personally, and many others, have EXPERIENCED this technique to be actually useful, in the actual world! I've included it to HELP and INFORM people in the REAL WORLD, based on ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE. If you have proof that it DOESN'T WORK, provide it and I will happily remove it. Until then, the information is sufficiently agreed-upon, mainstream and useful to be included in this common-person's shared compendium of knowledge, Wikipedia.
merge
Found a stub article that may have info to merge here, see links. xaosflux Talk/CVU 02:06, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
Insomnia Cure (Trial) , Flinders University, Australia
"So far, 17 people have been through the trial. Preliminary results show most of them have vastly improved sleep following the treatment. It’s early days, but Leon hopes this could be a genuine breakthrough."
"Imagine being desperate enough to sign up for this. For 24 hours you’re not allowed to sleep for more than 4 minutes at a time. Every time you do fall asleep you’re woken up, but this tortuous sleep therapy could be the cure for chronic insomnia."
"Far from feeling tortured says Leon, insomniacs can actually find this experience exhilarating. For the first time, they realise they can learn to fall asleep. At the beginning of the trial, Lynn was taking more than 20 minutes to fall asleep. Now she’s taking just a few minutes."
See: http://www.abc.net.au/ra/innovations/stories/s925385.htm
This information could be useful...
~~JohnI~~
Editor.../?
Any reason why my addition on Psychophysiological Insomnia was deleted? An explanation would be very helpful to me.
Sleep Onset Awareness Prevention Paradox
Did you receive the comment?
My point was that sleep is a trick, a sort of paradox, in that in order to fall asleep, you cannot be aware that you're falling asleep as you're falling asleep.
If you doubt this, try to fall asleep while staying aware that you're falling asleep, or stay aware of swallowing the saliva in your mouth, or of your breathing depth and rate. You'll never get to sleep with this torture. I would guarantee it. RB Feb 06
"Alleviating insomnia" section
I've placed a cleanup tag on this section because it is written in such a way as to give advice to the reader. This is unacceptable for two reasons: it is not encyclopedic in tone, and all the advice is unverified. The information about the techniques for alleviating insomnia seems solid, but the entire section needs to be rewritten so it is clear that the article is describing advice commonly given by therapists and other authorities (with citations whenever practical), not giving the advice itself. (Remember that Wikipedia does not advance opinions, even opinions as simple as "People who want to sleep better should avoid caffeine.") I plan to do such a rewrite myself, but if anyone else would like to get started (or further discuss the issue), please feel free. –Sommers (Talk) 03:28, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
- It appears I never made the edit adding the tag in question. I guess it got lost before I hit the "Save page" button. Anyway, it's there now. –Sommers (Talk) 17:36, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
== Added treatments + have a question ==
I just added some antidepressants and an atypical antipsychotic to the list of treatments.. + The article says that benzodiazapines are the most commonly prescribed medications for insomnia, and I'm wondering if this is talking about situational insomnia or chronic insomnia, and whether this is still true. Anybody?
--At least up here in Finland, zopiclone is considered less risky/addictive and is prescribed more commonly. It leaves the body fairly quickly and is also prescribed for alcoholics as the primary sleeping aid.--Snowgrouse 18:21, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
It would also be nice to know the differences between the treatment of chronic and temporary insomnia..and whether there is a difference in treatment for different forms of insomnia.. (for example, is treatment for insomnia caused by anxiety different from treatment for insomnia caused by bipolar disorder...) 216.106.49.131 19:28, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
Benziodiazapines, i.e. Diazepam, Lorazepam etc are durgs that have a very low abouse potential and are very safe drugs having a very high therapeutic index, but depending on the duration used, may cause dependence to indiuce Hypnosis. Sedation is a Calming effect on the mind and body commonly reffered in medical textbooks as Quiensence. Hypnosis, is the induction of sleep. Durgs such as Zopiclone on the other had have a lower abuse potential because of their shorter plasma half life, but again, should not be the primary means of treatment. Insomnia, is actaually a symptom that can be caused due to a multitude of reasons and just treating the symptom and not the cause is not a very wise long term solution to the problem.
Insomnia caused due and anxiety and Bipolar disorder are based on very different psycho-physiologial processes. Anxiety is considered to be an irrational fear where as Bipolar disorder is charecterised by periods of hyper exitibility known as the Manic phase and the depressive phase (often labelled as Manic Depressives) Insomnia is most common during the manic phases, where as the depressive phase is charecterized by excessive sleeping. Among the criteria for a clinical diagonsis for Clinical Depression is excessive sleep >16 hours a day. Induction of hypnosis and sedation is possible with the use of pharmacotherapeutics. In case of anxitey disorders, Benzodiazapines are the drug of choice as they are inherently Anxiolytic, where as Zopiclone does not have any anxiolytic properties whatso ever. However, resolution of the insomina will only occur whent he underlying cause for the insomnia is treated. Bipolar disorder is treated with mood stabalizing durgs such as Litium, and anxiety disorders are treated with psychological councelling. --Mohsin.parwez 19:04, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Explaining the "Contradictory" and "Factual accuracy" boxes
I've just put a "Contradictory" tag on the article. I'm going to add a tag about factual accuracy too. Here are my issues:
- The article starts by saying that insomnia is a symptom and not a disorder. "Primary insomnia" is recognized as a sleep disorder (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000805.htm). "Insomnia" is also a symptom of other sleep disorders. Almost all people experience occasional insomnia as part of normal life. I think this article should distinguish between the three more clearly.
- The opening paragraphs say that "Finding the underlying cause of insomnia is usually necessary to cure it," but the "treatment" section does not say anything about which treatments are appropriate for which causes.
- It would make sense to name and discuss pychophysiological insomnia (http://www.sleepeducation.com/Disorder.aspx?id=42). Most of the treatments listed here are most relevant to pychophysiological insomnia.
- The ICD9 codes refer to disorders that are not insomnia (!)
There are a lot of good ideas in this article; however I think these things really need to be sorted out.
Su-laine.yeo 07:31, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Would Insomnia be considered a disorder of the nervous system? Because I'm working on a school project about any nervous system disorder, and I am interested in this subject.
Help please
Would Insomnia be considered a disorder of the nervous system? Because I'm working on a school project about any nervous system disorder, and I am interested in this subject.
Insomnia in itself isn't a disorder of the nervous system, but it could be a symptom thereof. That is to say, some nervous system disorders will cause insomnia. Hope this helps.
fear of sleeping
what about insomnia caused by an irrational fear of sleeping, not sure if this actually exists but just a thought. Somniphobia or Clinophobia, perhaps? voodoom 08:52, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Often times people that have an irrational fear of sleep or are preoccupied with their sleep fit in to the category of psychphysiologic insomnia.
Marijuana removal
I removed the comment about marijuana being used to treat insomnia. marijuana is illegal in every country around the world, and it has not been proven to treat insomnia. If anything, Ive read about studies where marijuana has caused people to have even more irregular sleep cycles. And us eof marijuana to treat insomnia isnt illegal in "many" juridisctions, but in every single country around the worldthe
- Every single country around the world? Can you site that claim?
– I'm not sure where your abruptly curtailed statement was going, but you're incorrect in stating that "marijuana is illegal in every country around the world". See: Drug policy of the Netherlands
Actually marijuana is not LEGAL in the Netherlands, but is tolerated. That means the goverment wont prosecute anyone who has under 5 grams of marijuana. it is decrminalized there, and is not legal. Cultivation of marijuana is still very much illegal there.
"The psychoactive plant Cannabis sativa commonly known as marijuana has also been reputed to induce drowsiness in its user, however, use of Cannabis sativa for treatment of insomnia is unlawful in many jurisdictions."
The fact that it is "illegal" has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that its even more readily available than any other drug such as Ambien. It is effective, as Marijuana has always been known to induce drowsiness. Have you never tried it?--24.228.3.70 20:15, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
-Added "due to its illegal status" .. The previous wording is as if it was discounting the prior statement by claiming "no reliable sources". Marijuana is illegal, and there is a limited amount of research done on it due to its Schedule I listing. It makes no sense to delete this section, since it is an obviously effective method.
Alleviating insomnia
Can anyone see a reason this section should stay ? Wikipedia is not a how-to manual and medical advice has no place here --Peripitus (Talk) 07:18, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
- The problem isn't with the section itself, but that the individual entries don't have any citations. Most entries are probably written by us rather than being a summary of current medical knowledge, and I think that it should be clearer in the article which parts of the section are current advice and which are mere suggestions. Also, the advice to avoid caffeine should probably be in the treatment section. It's worth noting that the entries don't have to be scientifically validated to be in an encyclopaedia, they only have to come from a noteworthy source. — Lee J Haywood 15:41, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Critical pieces of information missing.
I see no where in the entry where there is mention of cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT). CBT alone has been shown superior to the treatment of insomnia when compared to medication alone and CBT + medications. There are some of the methods employed in CBT mentioned in the 'helpful advice' section, but CBT deserves it's own section, as it is recognized as a critical intervention in treating patients with primary insmonia.
The treatment section is heavily devoted to medicinal treatment of insomnia and mentions little about sleep hygiene, routine schedules, sleep enviroment, etc (all of which are addressed under the umbrella of CBT). I fear people reading this will think that drugs are the answer to their problems, when often they are not. If medications are indicated, it is usually as a short-term bridge until the underlying perpetuating factors of the insomnia are discovered, treated, and resolved. --Sleep3r 13:24, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
primary and secondary
This might sound like a stupid question, but where it says "Primary insomnia is sleeplessness that is not attributable to a medical or environmental cause." what exactly does the referal to "enviromental cause[s]" mean?? Is it as in the natural or physical enviroment the individual lives in (for example, whether he/she lives in the city or the country) or the enviroment that affects the individual mentally and physically?? I'm doing a school project, so, please answer a.s.a.p. Thank you for reading my ramblings, any help will be much appreciated. --Frills 10:47, 26 July 2006 (UTC) I think that all the people should just sleep.
- I believe "environmental" includes external factors disrupting sleep. For example, if one lived by railroad tracks where trains came through frequently at night, their noise and/or horns might disturb sleep. City noises might disturb a visitor from the country unaccustomed to them, whereas country noises (animals and birds, e. g.) might disturb a city dweller. For a humorous example of this, see the movie "My Cousin Vinnie". Vinnie, from New York City, can't sleep in the rural Alabama countryside, but he sleeps like a baby amidst the cacaphony of a jail cell. A room that is too hot or cold could be an environmental cause also.: Unimaginative Username 05:36, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Orgasmic insomnia?
Surely the version I edited didn't mean what it said: "Both orgasmic and non-orgasmic insomnia constitute a sleep disorder". I've never heard of insomnia itself causing an orgasm, although there are writers who recommend having one to prevent or relieve insomnia. :-) Unimaginative Username 05:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Removed "and it sucks"
Aye indeed it does, as did the inclusion of this statement in the introductory paragraph. ;).
Unprofessional Article
"if they are not grieving correctly (pretending they are over it when they are not)" - who wrote this? it is not very professional. can the world not provide just one psychiatrist to clear this article up so it can be useful to me (i'm trying to learn more about my insomnia)
Who, where, when?
"There are, however, people who are unable to achieve stage 4 sleep due to brain damage who still lead perfectly normal lives."
Like the title says. Who? Where? When? How normal are they? What do scientists think about this? Do they suffer? Is stage 4 sleep irrelevant than? I keep reading on wikipedia that such and such stage of sleep can be skipped with no ill effects, but then I read that you can die from not sleeping.
Causes
I've alphabetized the common causes of insomnia, they were unordered and haphazard before. On second thoughts, I migrated this information to it's own article for expansion.
Parkfarm mob 23:00, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
It doesn't need its own article. I think it needs to be moved back. If everything about insomnia had its own article there would be no article for insomnia itself. 194.81.151.68 16:41, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
- Should caffeine be replaced with stimulants to account for amphetamines etc. cyclosarin 17:22, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
No sleep
- 33 years withouth sleep. --85.226.6.231 22:27, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
Removed links
I removed two links. The first was to a blog with loads of advertising and "content" that was repeated verbatim on dozens of other sites, i.e., a classic link spam site. The second link was to a web site recruiting people for sleep-disorder--releated clinical trials. Whereas this site is not spam, it is not encyclopedic. Ljosa 13:40, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
So which is it? Can people stay up forever or not? What happens if you miss delta sleep? What happens if you miss REM sleep? If stages 1,2, and 3 don't matter, and you can miss 4 with no ill effects, and you can miss 5 with no ill effects, and there is no 6, than SURELY there is no ill effect of not sleeping at all? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.179.157.219 (talk) 17:29, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Why were my links reverted back to ones that are dead? My link was not spam. I merely fixed it since the site was updated and the link was no longer valid. Now the link to Insomnia from sleeptionary is back to being dead. What was the point? --James438
They were located in the same site. Please go and take another look and also look at what you reverted it back to because there were no adds whatsoever on the urls I fixed. They went to the same site even. The one you reverted it back to is a 404 error. Again, not a single ad on either of the links I fixed. Please confirm. --James438 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.167.225.209 (talk) 13:50, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
In Popular Culture
Does this section really contribute to or improve the quality of this article at all? Considering the sheer number of works where characters have some form of insomnia or its used as a joke, such a section seems unwieldy and useless. I propose it be removed. Collectonian 13:42, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
- In studying other high quality medical related articles, not a single one includes this sort of section. Since no one has objected to my proposal over the last 5 days, and looking at the formats of better quality articles of a similar nature (such as the formerly featured article clinical depression, I have removed the section entirely. Collectonian 13:48, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
