Talk:Ink

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My research shows no truth to the claim that walnut ink was used by "old masters". I make ink from pre-seventeenth century recipes as a hobby. I have made multiple inquiries to the British Museum, Irish Museum, the Smithsonian and other such institutions. So far all have replied that not only is there no proof of Walnut Ink being used but indeed that it would make a poor ink as it is not at all lightfast.

I am very interested in the sources used to come to the conclusion that Walnut Ink was used by "old masters". Mostly because I would love for it to be true and to have a recipe to try and make. Please let me know. Dave 02:13, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

The flesh surrounding the walnut seed (ie what would be the part eaten in peaches, apricots etc) can be used as a dye.

It should be clarified that "gallnuts" are the product of an insect infestation rather than seeds/nuts proper.

Jackiespeel 00:17, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Removed two odd phrases (walnut ink / naked woman)

I'm not sure (yet) whether this first edit relates to Jackiespeel's above comment. I've just removed two odd phrases from the article : "Use of walnut ink in antiquity is in mild dispute." and "image: naked woman." The latter was not associated with any image, and gave no context for being there, and was just all-around weird, so I deleted it.

The walnut ink thing also seemed a little like a non sequitur. It was said right after the assertion that the old masters used walnut ink, so I definitely see the context / connection, but no citations are given for either assertion (that walnut was used by the old masters, or that it wasn't). Either way, somebody needs to put in a reference, even if it's just to evidence of the disagreement itself.

Anyway I hope this has not pissed anybody off. Jessicapierce 16:10, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

(update) In the meantime, until someone can supply a source, I've changed the wording of the sentence to say that these inks "are thought to have been used by many of the old masters". Jessicapierce 16:14, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
(update) Please see source citation below. Also, Iron Gall ink WAS used in antiquity at least as far back as the Romans. I have changed the sentence to reflect that the ancient masters use iron gall ink but it is erroneous to think they used walnut. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mystborne (talk • contribs) 00:21, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
From the British Museum manuscripts folks. I sent them an e-mail and it literally went all over the world and finally ended up with their prime expert.

"From: Cheryl------- Sent: Thu 15/02/2007 07:34 To: ------, Sophie Subject: Re: Public enquiry no 69: An Inquiry into ink on manuscripts

Dear Sophie,
I am working in Cairo at the moment, so away from my books, but I am sure that I have never seen any recipes for using walnut as an ink. We have many for textile and paper colouring, but it wouldn't be a good ink because it's not very light fast etc. It quickly turns from black to brown - especially in sunlight, and in paper colouring (and maybe also textiles) it's known to be more brown than black. I am working with a turkish master caligrapher and art historian, who says that he has never heard of any reference to walnut ink in Turkey (or the Islamic) mss. Nor has there been any analysis that has identified it as an ink.
If I hear anything to the contrary I will let you know,
All the best,
Cheryl"
Sorry but I had hoped for a more positive answer Dave 04:45, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Also some possible confusion explained "Rather confusingly the latin name for Walnut is Gallica - Gallic nut, which does not refer to galls but to the location ( Gaul ) of the tree." Also from Sophie of the British Museum. Dave 04:53, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
And Finally
"Dear Alice,


David ------'s enquiry about walnut ink found its way to us – the conclusion we have come to is that walnut juice was never used as ink (or at any rate it has never been identified). Thanks for passing it on, anyway!
With best wishes,
Barry -----
Dr Barry -----
Head of Conservation Research
The British Library
96 Euston Road
London NW1 2DB"

Dave 05:05, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Modern ballpoint pen ink

What's that stuff? It's so shiny and sticky and iridescent.. I can't help but think it's a petroleum product.

It most likely has many petroleum based ingredients. (the coloring definately being one of them) Zbrown52 (talk) 01:57, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Problems with section "poisonous ink"

The section states that : "A chemical... p-Anisidine... is very hazardous", however the MSDS sheet for p-Anisidine states

“ Harmful if swallowed, inhaled or absorbed through the skin. Mild sensitizer. May cause contact dermatitis. (Some sources suggest that this chemical is extremely toxic, but that seems not to be in accord with the LD50s below, nor with the data for the ortho compound, which suggest that it is not especially hazardous.) ”
 

PiAndWhippedCream 13:56, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] toner as ink

What do you think about changing the definition here of "ink" to include powders, not just liquid. Using a powder (ie toner) for the same purposes of ink is a very new thing, but I think it qualifies as "ink". Frotz (talk) 05:50, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

As I said on the Talk page for toner, I don't think toner qualifies as ink in the sense used in this article, and I don't think most technical people who work wiht toner would call it is ink. Anyone else want to help resolve this? Pzavon (talk) 23:44, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
For what it's worth, the OED doesn't support such a co-identification. Carl.bunderson (talk) 00:11, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

If I remember correctly toner is a mixture of ink and developer. The ink can be either wet , or what is more commonly used today "Dry". almost all copiers and laser printers. Use Dry Ink. It is the substance used to color a surface to make text or a image. I was one of the technical people who worked with it. And for at least the last 35 years it has been called Dry Ink. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Revad58 (talk • contribs) 06:28, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

"Dry Ink" has been a marketing term for many years. It is more accessible to non-technical purchasers and allows one term to encompass a variety of products including pure toner and products that incorporate toner with carrier in one cartridge. Everyone I've encountered who is involved in the manufacture of the product calls the coloring agent encapuslated in plastic simply "toner". It is the sales people, and those who need to talk to them, who use other terms —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pzavon (talk • contribs) 02:49, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Crucial Omission

There's nothing here on octopus ink. What gives? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.157.201.12 (talk) 22:26, 20 March 2008 (UTC)