Template talk:Infobox animanga/Archive 2

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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

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Archive 2

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List of episodes

I'd like to recommend adding a "list of episodes" feature to the anime infobox template, similar to Template:Infobox Television (which, when "list_episodes" is used, places a "List of episodes" link next to the episode count). Not many anime shows have episode lists compiled into separate articles, although some high-profile series (like Neon Genesis Evangelion and Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex/2nd GIG) do, and there will probably be more like that in the future if the anime episode list template continues to be used. I don't see how it would be a Bad Thing, anyway. Tony Myers 06:57, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Good idea, I'll implement that. --Squilibob 07:47, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

There is a small problem with this parameter : filling it prevents from displaying a reference for the number of episodes (example of Serial Experiments Lain). Should we add the references somewhere else (after all, the episodes list has references too, but still) or is it possible to fix that ? ~ Jean-FrédéricFr 11:25, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

This was always a limitation of using the parameter. Instead you can link to the list manually in the No of episodes field and then have your reference. The section title won't be linked. I used to reference the number of episodes in the infobox too, but now I link them in the article instead. --Squilibob 04:56, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

New licensed anime sub-box

Lately, there has been some conflict related to licensed anime where in the studio section in the anime infobox, both the studio that did the animation and the licensing company were included. This created conflict on the basis that "studio" strictly pertains to the company that did the animation. So as to not have conflicts, I have instituted a sub-box to the anime box for licensed anime so that the information on which company licensed the anime can be included without worry of it being taken out later.

This shouldn't pertain to manga, let's say, because the "publisher" parameter is used which is more ambiguous than "studio" and there doesn't seem to be any conflict when all the known publishers are put into this section. However, this should also pertain to the OVA and Movie boxes, so I guess I'll go make those now.--十八 05:24, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't see why a separate infobox had to be made. Wouldn't an optional Licensor field to the existing boxes be enough? Or is there another reason to create new boxes? --Squilibob 10:26, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Back in August 2006 I created the Light novel box by the same principle with these, and no one seemed to care back then. But perhaps I was a bit hasty this time; if you can create an optional Licensor field to the existing boxes, then thank you for doing so.--十八 10:34, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

IMO licensing information is best presented in the article body. There are enough lines in each section of the infobox as it is, and licensing doesn't strike me as essential 'infobox datum' information. - mako 02:34, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

What about an 1-volume manga?

I've just recently edited the Alien 9 page to add information about the sequel: Alien 9 Emulators. The problem is, the manga has only one volume released on 15 May 2003. The information doesn't fit well in the Infobox animanga/Manga. The Original run box reads 2003 - 2003 which is quite silly. In such case, should there be an option to put in the sole release date (like the OVA and movie) instead of the same "first run" and "last run" info? - DTRY 14:39, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Ah, you mean like how the novel infobox works with "publish date" instead of "original run". The only reason this would not work for manga is that almost always manga are serialized in a magazine first, thus the "original run" and the infobox is meant to reflect this and not when the bound volume(s) were published, even though users must use this if the original run information is not available. Thus the difference between the novel box and the manga box and novels (and light novels too) are not always serialized first before being published in bound volumes.--十八 22:15, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing that up. So we need to find information about the serialization date. It looks like I have to leave the box the way it is at the moment.
However, once in a while an exception exists such as Battle Royale II: Blitz Royale (another Tomizawa's manga.)

"This manga was released straight to tankobon (graphic novel) format, therefore there was no serialization"

So how are we going to put such title into the infobox? Use "Not serialized"?
It's a good thing that the title in question actually has 2 volumes released on 2003 and 2004 so we can put the year directly into the box. Imagine what will happen if a manga is not serialized and has only one volume. That's a double exception! - DTRY 03:31, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Game --> Visual novel

Currently, we have the game infobox which has the heading simply of "Game". Since we are talking about games related to anime and manga, isn't it more accurate if the heading was changed to Visual novel instead?--十八 22:21, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Maybe make it an optional switch? -- Ned Scott 01:41, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

A large number of games related to anime and manga are not visual novels, so it would be inappropriate to rename the box to "Visual Novel". --Farix (Talk) 01:51, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Per Fairx's point, would it be alright to create a subset of the game box much like how I did with the novel box into the light novel box?--十八 07:08, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think it's necessary. _dk 08:26, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree, because when you get right down to it, a visual novel is a type of game. --Farix (Talk) 11:31, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

"Listas?"

What are "listas," and why have they been added to the header template? Snarfies 17:45, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

It's the {{DEFAULTSORT:}} function. See WP:CAT#Setting a default sort key. --tjstrf talk 18:00, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Is there way to add a toggle function?

I think it would be nice to have a toggle function to "hide" and "show" the infoboxes, similar to what you can do to the contents list. Is there a way to do that? --AutoGyro 17:49, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

It is possible but we don't have it in place for the entire infobox at present. Some parts do have the show/hide toggle, the network field in the anime box and the publisher field in the manga box.--Squilibob 04:41, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Infoboxes getting too long

To expand on this idea, I want to bring up an issue with a few articles that I've been involved with. Chiefly: Air (visual novel), Kanon, Shakugan no Shana, and Higurashi no Naku Koro ni. In all of the articles, the infobox is getting much too long and is starting to become obstructive, especially in the first three articles listed that have to realign images to the left because the infobox is in the way. I think that we could set up a system to only show the very first box on default with an option to toggle the rest to appear. For example, the only sub-box visable by default on the Kanon article would be the Game box (the header would always be visable) and there would be an option to see the other six boxes. And we could only do this as an option to articles with excessively long infoboxes such as the ones I have listed.--十八 17:55, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Another option would be to move the relevant section of the infobox into the section discussing that topic or split the article into multiple subarticles with the relevant parts of the infobox, such as putting all of the information about the video games into their own articles. Then you can use the most important parts of the infobox for the main article and provide extra links to the subarticles through Template:Infobox animanga/Other. --Farix (Talk) 19:13, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't see a problem with images being on the left for the length of the infobox. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 19:34, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

To expand on this, this only affects one image for Air (visual novel), possibly two each (if you have a really wide screen) for Kanon and Shakugan no Shana, and no images at all for Higurashi no Naku Koro ni. I don't see a problem here. And I think splitting the infobox into multiple pieces scattered throughout the article is a very bad idea. The whole point of the infoboxes is to give a concise quick reference at the top of the article. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 19:39, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I also believe that it should stay together, but another reason I bring up the issue is that when infoboxes become too long, doesn't that detract from it being a "concise quick reference"? I just feel this has to be addressed.--十八 09:42, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

How about we have a height= option to the header so that the infobox can be set to a fixed height. You would navigate the infobox with a vertical scrollbar. --Squilibob 07:18, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

That's not very intuitive, I think. _dk 10:19, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, trying to think of a solution to this. Hiding information is counter productive to having it there in the first place. We hide the publishers/networks in different countries because that is optional information which is not relevant to every reader. The information that we do have there is relevant. I don't think there is an information overload, it's a space issue. Perhaps we need to redesign certain aspects of the infobox:

Does the number of episodes/volumes need an entire line to itself? Can we put this somewhere else like in the subtitle (eg. instead of TV anime how about 13 episode TV anime
Do we need the kanji and the translation in the header of the infobox to take up one line each? Could we use {{H:title}} to Mouse over things?
Some fields are short and should always be short and could share a line with something else. eg. Demographic. Some fields are self explainitory like Original run. It doesn't need a title, just the dates could be displayed. Perhaps directly under the subtitle or directly under the network field.
Look at cutting out some fields that have always been mandatory. I remember long ago that Cool Cat wanted the Title to be optional. The infobox image usually has the title logo on it, so why not save a line.

I think if we can make the infobox somehow more efficient then it could take up less space without losing any information and without hiding anything. --Squilibob 15:05, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

animanga/movie

Could the 'producer' and 'music' fields in the animanga/movie infobox be set as optional fields (like 'demographic')? Now that they've been added, most articles with anime movies have minor issues - {{{producer}}} and {{{music}}} have appeared in the infobox (see for instance Nana (manga). Ninja neko 13:26, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Any new fields added to the infobox components should be made optional. I'm not sure why these fields were not done so. --Farix (Talk) 14:07, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Using the animanga/movie infobox automatically adds the "Anime films" category. That's cool, but Nana (manga), Honey and Clover and Boogiepop and Others don't have animated movies. They're live-action films and not even based on anime, but on light novels and manga series. Could someone create a component for live-action movies, or remove the feature that adds the "Anime films" category?--Nohansen 23:34, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

DEFAULTSORT

It is generally agreed that templates should not be setting {{DEFAULTSORT}}, since it can only be set once for any article. Also, this template does not appear to involve categories at any point, so I have removed the listas parameter and taken out the DEFAULTSORT. Articles which require sort keys should have DEFAULTSORT set manually in the editable text, rather than hidden in a convoluted template. --Stemonitis 07:35, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

The other templates that are combined with this template do use categories. --Squilibob 07:38, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Then they should have sort keys coded into them, without resorting to DEFAULTSORT. This demonstrates how convoluted the syntax is, and how difficult it is for the average user to find out where the default sort key is being set. --Stemonitis 08:01, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Why have a listas parameter for every template component when a central listas would do the job more efferently? --17:03, 3 September 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheFarix (talk • contribs)

Question about publisher_other

publisher_other is an optional parameter to be used when foreign publishers are to be included in the infobox.

For clarification: does "foreign" mean "other than in Japanese" (original publication) or "other than Japanese and English" (original language + language of this wiki)? As worded, the guideline's ambiguous -- and in practice I've seen it both ways, though more often the former. Recent talk on the project's style guideline page (include only Japanese and English info) suggests the latter interpretation. —Quasirandom 22:26, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Well it depends on the size of the infobox. It has always been used as a space saver. If the extra line for the English publisher/network makes the infobox too large and there are several other languages then I would group the English into publisher_other. Otherwise if the infobox is not too large then it could be grouped with the Japanese. Use your discretion as an editor. --Squilibob 01:45, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Make all fields optional?

This was something that was brought up at WT:ANIME earlier, but I was wonder just how much support or opposition there is to making all infobox fields optional. --Farix (Talk) 15:12, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

It won't damage any existing articles, I would like it to be so. The title should be optional too. (The image can be used as a title if it contains a logo). --Squilibob 01:45, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I was actually thinking of defaulting the title to the article's name. --Farix (Talk) 01:58, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I'm made all fields optional for all components. I've also cleanup the other fields which where rather convoluted. I also took the opportunity to remove the meta templates such as {{!}} and use Template:Infobox animanga/Header2 and Template:Infobox animanga/Footer in the previews. I also provided some shortened alternate field names (ex. first_aired = first) though the originals will continue to work and will override the alternate names. I've also merged Template:Infobox animanga/Novel and Template:Infobox animanga/Novel/Light so we now don't need the latter any longer. --Farix (Talk) 00:37, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Live-action movie adaptations

Hi all, what infobox template do we use when a manga is adapted into a live-action movie? Now, the 'Movie' one is used, but this puts the article automatically in the Category:Anime films which is incorrect (see for example :Kagen no Tsuki). Add a parameter to indicate live-action or not? Or a new animanga infobox template? (as 'studio' is a bit odd too for a live-action movie.) Ninja neko 08:01, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Kanji and Romaji

Currently the template has ja_name and ja_name_trans which is often filled with the Kanji and Romaji titles respectively. However, since both the Kanji and Romaji forms of the title is already the first part of the lead sentence, I was wondering if this is over-duplication that is too close together. I don't think it will hurt anything to actually drop these two fields completely. --Farix (Talk) 00:44, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

If the infobox is a summary of all the important facts, then the original Kanji name should certainly be in there (and by extension the Romanji too). The author is usually also mentioned on the first line in the lead, but it also should be in the infobox. I've also seen editors cram in the kanji for separate installments (sequels, ova's and movies) in the infobox section's 'title' field, so I think there is a need to keep the kanji/romanji fields - if not, they'll be added at random. Ninja neko 02:12, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

What about my previous suggestion of using {{H:title}} to save space for this? --Squilibob 10:30, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Could you specify this? Would it look like underlined Kanji, and on hovering you'd get Romaji? I'm trying to picture it. Ninja neko 13:42, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Question re: Captions

This is mainly directed at User:TheFarix, as he recently altered the header portion of this template to display the caption under the image in the box. My question is, is this really necessary? Why not just keep with how it's always been with the caption imbeded as alt text for the image it represents?--十八 03:50, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I figured it was a shame to have a caption for the image, but the readers will never actual see it. --Farix (Talk) 11:39, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

I kinda liked it better as an alt text too, it looks awkward beneath some busy images. Most of the time it's just 'volume 2' or 'series X logo' anyway. Ninja neko 13:37, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

"network" should be replaced with "broadcast"

Many animes are only broadcast on independent UHF stations so I recommend changing it to the aforementioned "broadcast" following the the television infobox template custom 203.173.196.237 04:56, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Header image

The template currently states: The image is resized to 300px by default, so the image used should optimally be 300px or greater. If the image is smaller, there is an optional 'size' field. When I use 300px images in the infobox, they get resized by other editors for being 'overwhelming'. Set a new default size? Stick to the 300 and reverse the images back to 300? Ninja neko 11:42, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Improving documentation

We have to admit that this infobox is not properly documented. The existing documentation states that all parameters are self explanatory, but apparently they are not. It also doesn't give an example of what each individual component.

To fix this, I started rewriting the documentation in one of my sandboxes. Mostly what I attempted to do was provide an example of each component and an explanation of the parameters. --Farix (Talk) 17:51, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Looks good to me. ごくろうさまでした. -mako 10:02, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Drama CD's & Artbooks

I have noticed that there is some ambiguity about where to list Drama CD's and Artbooks that are specifically based on the series. I can see where adding these could get out of hand with anime series, but on manga series that have one art book and maybe a CD or two, I would like to add the information. Many manga that never make it to anime often will have a Drama-CD. I've tried to think of how to list them under "other" but I end up with very long lines of text after writing out the title, media type, release date, and publisher. I guess that I would really love to see animanga/Drama-CD and animanga/Artbook. Amphi 07:08, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't think we really need to add in these fields to the infobox if that's what you're proposing, but as for listing them in an article, put them in an "Other media" section if you want to, or you could put the drama CD(s) under a separate header and then add in a note about any artbooks in the manga section. That's what I'd do anyway. But then I've never added in information about artbooks before mainly because I have never seen anyone do it before. I always add in the drama CD information if it's present though.--十八 07:51, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Template:Infobox animanga/Magazine

Exactly why was this component added when Template:Infobox Magazine does a perfectly find job with more details? The likelihood of this ever being used with other components is nonexistent. --Farix (Talk) 00:19, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I was about to pose the same question. The animanga boxes in this template are meant to be used in tandem with other boxes, like a series that has a Game, Anime, and Manga adaptations to it; a magazine is not a media-type adaptation, and {{Infobox Magazine}} is perfectly capable of being used for all magazines.--十八 00:24, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but there does seem to be some nifty auto-category features that are anime/manga specific. It's use in Manga Life seems to work pretty well. While I like to keep things standard myself, I'm interested in seeing where this leads to. I have no objection to the template at this time. -- Ned Scott (talk) 07:49, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

The auto-categorization isn't a big deal. And no one can legitimizes state that it's easier since you have to add {{Infobox animanga/Header}} and {{Infobox animanga/Footer}} to make the infobox complete. That's actually more work then using {{Infobox Magazine}} and adding the category at the bottom of the page. --Farix (Talk) 13:06, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

We're keeping it for now. It's not a big deal, and it might lead to some good ideas. -- Ned Scott (talk) 22:32, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry. I must have missed the discussion were it was decided by consensus that "we" are going to keep the template. However, if Nihonjoe doesn't make any comments as to why he created the template as opposed to using {{Infobox Magazine}}, then I'm going to put it up for deletion. --Farix (Talk) 22:42, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

"We" didn't decide everything, that's not what I'm saying, but on that same line of thinking, no one has to consult you before making a animanga template. Now you're threatening to take it to TfD? What's going on with you, Farix? -- Ned Scott (talk) 22:59, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Because I see it as completely redundant with {{Infobox Magazine}}. I originally asked the question about why it was created so that Nihonjoe can respond, which he hasn't. So I haven't been convened that it isn't redundant and shouldn't be deleted. So why exactly are you getting your panties in a punch? --Farix (Talk) 23:30, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

I have to say, the fact that I have given reasons myself for why I think it should be kept, and given how easy it would be to clean up if nothing comes from this new template, I think you're wasting our time by taking it to deletion. I think you are obsessing over something that isn't a big deal at all. A great deal of templates have grown organically like this, and there's no need to jump on something like this simply because you don't see where it's going. -- Ned Scott 08:27, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Farix as listed the template for deletion at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 November 21#Template:Infobox animanga/Magazine. -- Ned Scott 08:27, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

This must be the discussion you mentioned. Why didn't you post a note on my talk page letting me know you had a question, Farix? I don't come to this talk page often, and it likely got lost in the pile of 6300 other pages I watch. Ned has given several good reasons for why this template should be kept, and I think the template could be improved to make it more flexible and easier to use. I mentioned putting in a standalone switch on the TfD page. I think that my allay concerns about having to include the header and footer parts. One of my biggest reasons for including it is to be consistent with other anime and manga pages. That, and easy categorization. ···日本穣^{? · Talk to Nihonjoe} 03:25, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Examples

Must we have an invented example plus three more examples right under it? It just seems like a waste of space (and the Sailor Moon one messes with the horizontal scrolling in IE/MSN broswer).--十八 06:43, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Composer

Should we perhaps add a field indicating the composer of the original music for the media where it is appropriate (anime, OVA, movie)? {{Infobox Television}} has one, for example. And seeing how often music plays a greater role in anime, it might be reasonable, too. --Koveras ^☭ 10:29, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

We had a composer field in the first iteration of the infobox, but we decided to get rid of it due to bloat. (Similarly, mechanical design and character design can be argued to be important, but their inclusion would make for a really long box.) Such topics are more appropriate for the body of the article. - mako 10:02, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok... --Koveras ^☭ 13:11, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Error?

I was trying to use this Marmalade Boy, but when I set first and last, only last shows up with a dash in front of it. If I put the date in the published field, it works. But that doesn't match what the documentation indicates. Has published replaced first? Collectonian (talk) 10:23, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

"Published" is used only if there was a single novel release, otherwise "first" and "last" are used to indicate the time between when the first and last volumes were released. If "first" and "last" are used, the "published" parameter won't show up.--十八 11:25, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Manga box bug?

Can someone fix the manga box bug so the dash in the dates doesn't show if there is no last date? I'm not quite comfortable enough with the code to do it myself, but if the manga only has one volume it looks weird to have "date -" then nothing. Collectonian (talk) 03:59, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

It's not a bug. Remember that the vast majority of manga are serialized, so there should be two dates every time. Now, in the very few cases where we have one shots, I suppose we could set up something like with the novel box for single-novel releases.--十八 04:21, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

The vast majority are, but if we can't find the serialization dates and can only use the single volume date, it would be good if the dash didn't show. Collectonian (talk) 04:34, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

But I do not believe the template was designed to be for the volume release dates, hence the first and last release row, and the serialization field. Is it really that hard to find at the very least the year the manga started serialization and the year it ended?--十八 04:37, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

So far, yes, it has proven to be very difficult indeed for this particular one, named Escaflowne - Energist's Memories. ANN just has the volume release date, and my Japanese reading ability is limited to the Engrish spit outs of BabelFish. I'm not even positive it was serialized at all, though ANN says it was in Asuka, but thus far I've yet to find an actual start or end date. Collectonian (talk) 04:48, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

It's helpful to ask others for help too. I found this site relatively quickly, and it seems that Energist's Memories was a comic anthology not serialized in a magazine (ANN can be wrong at times), and with a ton of different artists. It seems to have been published under the "Asuka Comics DX" publishing label on January 8, 1997 (here's the Amazon page for further confirmation on the date, since the first link says January 1996, but also says the originally planned date was in December 1996. So, yeah I guess I forgot about comic anthologies too in addition to one-shots. I'm not too adapt at altering the template code for instances like this, but there's the info you wanted.--十八 07:35, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

That was basically all of the information I had found as well. I just though Asuka was only a magazine and didn't realize it was also a publishing label. So then my original question was actually correct as it was never serialized (but glad to have it confirmed so I can quit chasing ghosts LOL). Collectonian (talk) 07:43, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Actually, it would be simple enough to add an optional parameter, something along the lines of single_release, that would hide the dash if defined. If everyone's comfortable with the parameter name, I can add it in for you. —Dino guy 1000 20:41, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Since no one else has commented for or against it, I'll go ahead and make the change. At this point, if anyone feels it shouldn't have been done, feel free to revert back. —Dino guy 1000 19:12, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

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