Talk:Indies

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[edit] earlier comments

if i understand things correctly, the east indies were once known simply as the indies.

so does this mean that east indians were known simply as indians?

Gringo300 08:24, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • Answer: Yes! Inhabitant of the East Indies are known as Indians.

[edit] The First Europeans in the Spice Indies

The "Portuguese" were the "first" Europeans to set sail in the "East Indies", beginning in "1497"(late 15th century), who arrived in India, Sri Lanka and East Timor between 1500-1520, then followed by the "Spanish" in the early 16th century in "1521" who founded the Philippine Archipelago. The Dutch Explorers arrived 74 years later in "1595", who began exploring the land of what is now Indonesia.

[edit] Need better map

Need to get a better map....the one shown is stated as showing the indies, but based on the definition of indies, it doesn't !

im not sure about that definition, i didnt think that the Indies included India (strange as that sounds) -- Astrokey44|talk 15:53, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
The definition specifically excludes western New Guinea, which is presumably correct, but the map includes it. Nurg 02:12, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] India??

I always thought the East Indies were just the islands of Indonesia - its also what it says in the britannica [1]. "Indies" by itself may also be referring to the West Indies (Caribbean) -- Astrokey44|talk 15:46, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Nope. Indies was a collective term for the Asia-Pacific region lying outside the Oriental sphere. After the Dutch colonised Indonesia (see Dutch East Indies), the term Indies was used specifically used for this region so as to differentiate from British India. West Indies is called so because early European settlers actually thought that it was Indies. American Indian naming controversy!! Rings bells?? --128.210.59.31 04:06, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
So close! You got the nameing thing right, but you got the settlers thing wrong. Columbus knew where he was going. He knew that when he sailed across the Atlantic that he would end up in America. HE HAD A MAP! That map already showed the location of Puerto Rico and the surrounding islands! He called the people he found there "en dios". He wrote in his journal that they people reminded him of the descriptions of Adam and Eve in Genesis and how Adam was created in God's likeness. Over time the words were combined and basterdized into Indians. India wasn't even called "India" yet, and the term "Indies" didn't become popular until the Dutch created the East Indies Trading Company. Heck! the Europeans didn't even sail to the Indies until after Colombus "discovered" America.Itzacho (talk) 07:12, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] History

I would strongly contend that: "The New World was initially thought to be the easternmost part of the Indies by explorer Christopher Columbus, who had grossly underestimated the westerly distance from Europe to Asia. Later, to avoid confusion, the New World came to be called the "West Indies", whilst the original Indies came to be called the "East Indies"." Christopher Columbus knew where he was going. He had maps that showed the location of the islands that he was setting out to explore before he left Lisban! The maps are held in the cartography libraries in Portugal. If you want to see replications just take a look in the book, "1421: The Year China Discovered America", by Gavin Menzies. Menzies is a retired Royal Navy submarine commander and took the maps that he found, and by adjusting the longitude to make up the cartography errors, and layed out solid evidence that Christopher Columbus had in his possession maps that showed the land that he was to "discover".Itzacho (talk) 07:23, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge discussion

Indianized kingdom, Greater India, Undivided India, Indian subcontinent and Indies - little difference in content, same maps and graphic used over and over, not much accessibility to the information spread over an array of hotchpotch. The only argument I can see against a merger is chauvinism. Yes, India was great and still is great. But, we don't need fifty different entries to prove that greatness, much less the same point that India has/had influence over a wide part of the world and was/is known to have so. *Sigh*. Aditya(talk • contribs) 02:05, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

More and deep *Sigh*. I am confining my comments, for the time being to, the Indian Subcontinent - the page is about a geographical reality, and it can not be eliminated simiply because the landmass contains more than one sovereign state. --Bhadani (talk) 17:19, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
Hahahhahaha! That was good, real good. I see distinct possibilities that the Indian Subcontinet can very well be merged into South Asia. They represent the same geographical reality. That would help us to keep the landmass intact without not the indo-centric POV. The rest may go into an article on Indian influence and historical expanse (two sides of the same coin), thus reducing redundancy and chauvinism. BTW, I see the same repetitive structure in China-related articles. Unfortunately I know too little of China to make a substantial comment there. Aditya(talk • contribs) 06:23, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Couldn't all these differences in terminology be addressed in one article about India? 63.164.47.227 (talk) 06:24, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Copy-pasted from Talk:Undivided India

alright, the discussion of the term "India" is spread over too many articles at the moment.

we need to centralize this discussion. This article isn't about "Undivided India" so much as about listing all these terms. it would be best to {{move}} this article to India (and the present India to Republic of India) and make it a summary discussion of all these terms. It's just too damn confused as it is now. dab (𒁳) 08:53, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I support this suggestion. — goethean ॐ 00:15, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Moving India to the Republic of India is like changing the Constitution of India - [2]. It also looks really bizarre and strange that the contents of Undivided India have been changed to look really stupid from its original meaning as enshrined in a legal enactment! However, as this free encyclopedia prides itself on having free flow style contents based on consensus, I don't mind if consensus is to say that India emerged when Pakistan was divided into Pakistan and India. I am not bitter, I am visualizing the possible contents of this encyclopedia which the founders fondly planned to be around for next 100 years. --Bhadani (talk) 18:17, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
I support the suggestion of the move of India to the Republic of India--Keerllston 23:15, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Further discussion may resume below the line

There is a lot of discussion visible on the talk pages of all of the merger candidates. And, most of the comments against merger seem to hang on to subtleties and nuances (i.e. Greater India is bigger than Undivided India or Indian Subcontinent as a term has been in coinage for long). Unfortunately not one of the against-merger comments said a single thing about the usefulness of having a dozen different articles repeating mostly the same stuff (in copy, ref and graphics) to assert the greatness of India. And, while there are comments saying the original intention of these articles were not this, not one edit has been made to make them conform to the intentions. Therefore I propose being bold and merging them all (almost all, at least) and that pretty quick. Aditya(talk • contribs) 04:26, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I know Indian subcontinent is a significant landmass, and it is linked from subcontinent. But... (1) Indian subcontinent = South Asia, and a sencond article on the same landmass is adding no extra value; and, (2) that link from subcontinent can be addressed in many ways, most notably a redirect and a line or two on the South Asia page describing it's alternative name. This should solve Transhumanist's problem. Aditya(talk • contribs) 07:11, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
  • allow me to add my semi-informed opinion.  :-) I think the merge as presented is too broad. it seems to me that two or three smaller mergers would be more in order: Indian subcontinent with south asia (noting both the cultural and geographic qualities); Greater India, Undivided India, and Indies, since all three seem to focus on a kind of Indian cultural influence sphere, ... . with, of course, appropriate redirects as Aditya proposed.--Ludwigs2 (talk) 01:37, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Highly agreeable as far as I can see. Should I go forward? In the face of a lack of a proper discussion, I guess, WP:BRD is the right way to go about this. Aditya(talk • contribs) 11:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Oppose except for one case:
Indian subcontinent should redirect to South Asia probably (in any case it's different from East Indies or Indies). Merging with South Asia should be dealt with in a separate discussion.
Greater India is the same as the (Eastern) Indies, so this one yes: merge
Undivided India should probably not be titled that way but rather India (disambiguation).
Indianized Kingdom rather seems a cultural concept, like Hellenistic Kingdom. It probably deserves its own article.
--Sugaar (talk) 07:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)