Talk:Indian name

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This page has been created as suggested by 3 users in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Indian_family_name Please edit, correct, clarify, and comment and make this page useful and interesting. Doctor Bruno 08:11, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Contents 1 About Examples 2 Copyedit and Fact checking 3 Women's Names 4 Introduction 5 Indian diaspora 6 Cleanup 7 Map(s) 8 Forced Shortening and Inversion of Names 9 What order are names written in?

[edit] About Examples

Most of the examples will be from South Indian names (because I know that).. You are free to give other examples also. Also much has been taken from http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Bridge/1771/Desh/nms.html Doctor Bruno 09:55, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Copyedit and Fact checking

I fixed the grammar and style of the article. It still seems cumbersome to me. A more streamlined introduction into naming conventions is needed. Also, if someone who is familiar with Indian names could check to make sure everything is still factually accurate. Kerowyn 03:56, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I have added few points (edited by you) which are needed to give a comprehensive picture Doctor Bruno 02:20, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Women's Names

One piece of information that ought to be added for each language group/religion is how women's names work, e.g. whether a women in that culture changes her name on marriage.Bill 22:06, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Introduction

"Indians greatly believe in mythology and they name their kids with mythological names. They go for epics also to name their kids. Some people have their family name along with their name." These sentences from the introduction are confusing. I'll try to edit them, but someone who knows more about Indian names should make sure I'm correct. Flutefreek 05:34, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Indian diaspora

As a suggestion before I make an edit, I was hoping to add a section on naming conventions for Indian diaspora. There are references to Malaysia and to 3r'd generation immigrants in this article, which could perhaps be collected under a new section. A further example that comes to mind in the same category is that of the Indo-Caribbean population, whose names where changed (forcibly? - debated )before they were taken as slaves to the West Indies. Shivanarain Chanderpaul - would have come from Shiva Narayan Chander .Another example is the name of a friend of mine Shawn Rambrath whose given Hindu name is Roshan shortened to Shawn and the surname lengthens to Ram Bharat.The Mystic 16:56, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Another point that comes to mind on a different note, is that trying to relate South Indian naming conventions to western conventions with terms such as second name , surname or middle name , maybe be inappropriate because of 'joint writing' in dravidian languages , ie the ability to write distinct words ( or names) together as one continous word. eg Muthappan is Mutthu Appan or Kunhiraman is Kunhi Raman ( Kunhi meaning small or Kunji in Tamil, is similar to the present day usage of junior as in Jack Junior).The Mystic 16:56, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Be bold :). ¦ Reisio 01:11, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup

I have just cleaned up this article a bit and tried to put it in a more sensible order. I am sure more improvements can be made. I removed a few things that I know to be false - for instance, the name "Nehru" was certainly not invented by Motilal Nehru when he moved to Allahabad! It is well documented in any biography of Jawaharlal Nehru (including his autobiography, IIRC) that the name "Nehru" was a probable corruption of "Nehari" (canal) and was adopted by that family in Kashmir many generations before Motilal Nehru was even born. I also think some of the examples could be improved. There were too many examples of Sikh names (I have reduced this to just Manmohan Singh, as India's most prominent Sikh figure), but most of the examples for South Indian names appear to be either obscure or made-up. It would be much better to have examples of real names of prominent figures if possible, on grounds of Wikipedia's No Original Research policy, which this article is in danger of violating anyway. -- TinaSparkle 09:37, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, TinaSparkle, for your efforts. I just tagged the article in need of cleanup to capture your, "I am sure more improvements can be made." I am a U.S. software developer working with some people in Chennai, so I like to understand what I can about their circumstances, including names. I did not understand the purpose of the numbered list at the beginning of the surnames section, for example. I would copy-edit myself, but I'm afraid I would change the meaning until it is outrageous. -- ke4roh 01:30, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

I just altered the passage on Indian Christian names for syntax and conventions, in hopes that it will make the information more clear and concise. I did not, however, change, add, or remove any of the factual content of the section.Alwaysasking (talk) 00:03, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Map(s)

I just tagged this article in need of one or more maps because it would help me to understand the geography of names in India. I have met several Indians who asked the name of another Indian friend of mine so as to determine where the latter is from, indicating to me that an approximate map of names to places might be possible. I saw a map of the top 50 British surnames, and perhaps something similar might be possible, though I realize the diversity in India might make it more practical to render a series of maps for regions using different naming systems, for example. -- ke4roh 01:30, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Forced Shortening and Inversion of Names

An external influence on Indian (and other) naming systems in the West is the preference of clerks and data entry people for limiting names to two words: often only the first and last words of a string will be recorded at a hospital or clinic, as "Christian name" and "Surname" respectively, which may lead to confusion later when things like laboratory reports have to be matched to persons in places with large Indian or Pakistani populations. This is not just a problem for Indians: John Albert Smith and John Alfred Smith would both go down as John Smith.

In the case of Sikhs, who may retain sub-caste names in the UK whereas their Indian relatives may drop them for egalitarian reasons, this would mean losing the "Singh" or "Kaur" resulting in a completely unisex name on the file.

A similar ethnocentricity may be built into databases, such as Access, which may force everyone into the American mould of first name + middle initial + surname when printing out names.

Another cause of confusion is the insistence of officials on identifying the "surname" and then putting it first, which also causes confusion when the subject has a two-part personal name only.

Officials faced with a short single name, or one not overlapping with a parent's, may put the last part of that parent's name down as the child's surname, leading to anomalies such as a boy apparently surnamed "Begum" on his record. NRPanikker 16:47, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What order are names written in?

Hi, I came to this article looking for information on the order that Indian names are written in; is it usually Firstname Lastname as in most English speaking countries, or Lastname Firstname as in China and Hungary, or something else - and does this vary by region or religious heritage?

Could anyone here help me out? :-) Moyabrit (talk) 13:42, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

The most accurate answer would be that there is no "usual order," even in a small area. This is a problem for librarians and others who wish to index other people's names. If they select the last word as "Lastname," that may or may not be the one that others would look under. Even if the person has a hereditary "surname," it may usually be abbreviated, and could occur anywhere in the name: beginning, middle or end. It may not be what the person is called by officials or employers. NRPanikker (talk) 17:39, 7 February 2008 (UTC)