Talk:In-n-Out Burger/Archive1

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

Richard Boyd

The Richard Boyd mentioned here is not the same one that his name links to. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.104.227.143 (talk • contribs) 09:47, August 7, 2006

  • Thanks. I've changed it to point to Richard Boyd (executive). Wikibofh(talk) 14:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

ENTOURAGE

THERE IS A SCENE IN AN ENTOURAGE EPISODE WHERE THE GUYS ARE EATING IN N OUT (I am certain of this). And i'm pretty sure they've worn an in n out shirt in an episode (not sure of that).

The big lebowski

The article mentions that In-N-Out is 'a plot point' in the movie "the big lebowski" - honestly I couldn't even remember any point at which the restaurant chain was even referenced in the movie, but upon asking a few co-workers, they said there is a scene where the characters are either eating at or eating from an in-n-out burger, but it was far from being a "plot point" - I would agree that this should probably be removed.

  • Did you actually see the movie? They discuss the fact that Larry Sellars lives near an In-N-Out Burger and are eating Burgers as they drive away, with the wind now blowing in their hair. FancyPants 06:14, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Walter Sobchak: He lives in North Hollywood on Radford, near the In-and-Out Burger...
The Dude: The In-and-Out Burger is on Camrose.
Walter Sobchak: Near the In-and-Out Burger...
Donny: Those are good burgers, Walter.
Walter Sobchak: Shut the fuck up, Donny.

Shouldn't this talk-page section be deleted? It's one thing to say, "The Big Lebowski is irrelevant to In-N-Out Burger", but it's just factually incorrect to say that In-N-Out Burger doesn't come up in The Big Lebowski. In fact, living as I do on the East Coast, it's pretty much all I know about In-N-Out Burger.

significantly above

I added that In-N-Out pays "significantly above" the minimum wage. As of right now, California minimum wage is $6.75. In-N-Out is advertising entry level positions in Fresno and LA at $8.25 and the Silicon valley at $9.25. I figure that's significant. What I don't know is how to find a nice way of saying "people who work in In-N-Out are nice, smart, and personable, unlike the zitfaced morlocks in mcdonalds..." -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 00:55, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I take exception to the "smart" part. I once ordered when the cash register was out of order, and paid with a $10 bill. The cashier just stood there, stunned, not knowing how much to give me for change. Then he had to ask for a pen and paper to do his calculation. After a minute of him fumbling around without success, he gave up and just gave me an amount significantly higher than my change. :-) DHN 01:06, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Special orders

Aren't there significantly more special orders than what is on the list? I don't know any others, but rumor has it there is a hundred or something like that. It could at least be noted that the list is incomplete if it is. - Taxman 17:44, Mar 8, 2005 (UTC)

I think the list covered them all. It explains that one secret item can be combined with another, and that 4x4, etc, can go up to any numbers. But since your burger is made right there when you order it, if you ask for any variation to they can do it, just like any other burger place, "can I have {blah} without the {blah}", But I have not searched for an expanded list, so i might be wrong and you might be right. --AlexTheMartian 02:01, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)
I also heard that you can ask for any variation. And so, in theory, there could be a hundred or more special items. But I also heard that what we have so for on the list are all "the most popular ones." 69.110.25.139 17:23, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
As of two years ago google would find mongo lists of styles you could order, but the only ones that I remember are animal style and jungle style. My friends who grew up in the area used to make up styles to order just to see what they would get. Unfortunately all I can find with google now is this "official list." I'm still trying to look around though. --Laura Scudder | Talk 04:18, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
All I've been able to turn up right now is that jungle style means more veggies and everything grilled, while they used to do volcano style which involved hollowing out the inside of the top of the bun and filling the hollow with ketchup [1]. That same site says that old-fashioned style no longer exists also. As reliable as web forums are, the disappearance of longer lists makes me wonder if they didn't just simplify employee training by sticking to the most popular "secret" menu items and ditch the countless others. Unfortunate that I can't find a two-year old broken link to a list, or I could wayback machine it. --Laura Scudder | Talk 04:47, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
There could be a rumor that there is a hundred or something like that. But I also know from a former friend who use to work there that there is a list of "official secret items" that In-n-Out trains all its workers on. All I know is that the current list is not even close to a hundred. Zzyzx11 17:44, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • I also heard that In-N-Out has stopped using the term "Wish Burger" and is now just calling it the "Veggie Burger". I imagine that veteran workers will still know what a "Wish Burger" is but rookies will be clueless. Zzyzx11 17:53, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
  • You're correct zzyzx...'wish burger' has been an antiquated term for at least 4 years, in fact...employees 'know' it, but it's not in any documents/manuals. As for special orders, LauraScudder was mostly right - there's not really any named special orders other than 'Animal' anymore. You can still get most of the other stuff done, but it doesn't have a fancy name. Lance 28 June 2005 16:20 (UTC)

Can you actually order the extra chocolate shake? The In-N-Out employee I asked gave me a confused look. Frogular 22:39, September 8, 2005 (UTC)

As far as I know it's not possible to increase the syrup mixture on the shake machine.
This is an old discussion, but, as a former employee, I'll just clarify that there are something like 6-8 "official" burger variations. It's not a huge list. By which I mean, those variations appear on the touch-screen ordering system that they train the cashiers on. Beyond that, you can order literally any combination of ingrediants that I-i-O serves, which just amounts to adding or subtracting elements from existing menu items. Those are the non-official variations. Technically, they'll only charge for extra meat or cheese. They may stop short of "I'd like a burger with an entire head of lettuce under it", but then again, if you really press them they'll probably do it...Anazgnos 18:51, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

++++

I just recently started hearing about something called a "Frankie" in which you can have them put your french fries in your milkshake for you. as gross as it sounds it must be pretty popular to warrant it being given a nickname

-bing (June 11th 2006)

There's a whole list of the secret menu items here.

Major changes

Hey all, I added the 'Ordering an INO Burger' section, consolidated many of the 'trivia' sections under the single heading, and made a few various copy edits and minor information additions. If you're wondering, yes, I did work there for many years :P Lemme know what everyone thinks. -Lance 28 June 2005 20:51 (UTC)

I think the ordering an INO Burger is too involved for an encyclopedia entry. I think it's relevant to mention what comes on the burgers, and how they can be modified, but mentioning what codes show up on the receipt seems excessive. -- Norvy (talk) 03:29, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
Perhaps - I think the receipt codes are helpful in that they're a non-ambiguous way to talk about ordering, and it can be helpful to customers in determining whether their order is what they want. Perhaps we should split the more technical aspect into a new article?

Title

Shouldn't the article reside at In-N-Out Burger, with a redirect at In-N-Out? Hipocrite 21:07, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

yes. done. --Lance


Sections appear snagged from Snopes!

A section of this article appears to have been borrowed liberally from http://www.snopes.com/business/alliance/inandout.asp. Adding words and extending the text does not make it original, especially with such unique phrases being repeated. With fair usage of copywritten material, clarification on which words were added and attribution is necessary. Did anyone contact Snopes directly and ask for permission?

"The Snyders are a religious Christian family, and most likely these particular Bible verses have special meaning for them." (Wikipedia)

and

"The Snyders are a religious family, and their continuing to control their own company means they can put what they want on their product packaging. They've chosen to include pointers to particular Bible verses that we presume hold special meaning for them." (Snopes) Noirdame 17:57, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

I changed it a little and put up a reference. --Berol 21:18, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

First drive-thru?

The company website says that:

  • In 1948, the first In-N-Out Burger was founded by Harry and Esther Snyder in Baldwin Park. Harry's idea of a drive-thru hamburger stand where customers could order through a two-way speaker box was quite unique. In that era, it was common to see carhops serving those who wanted to order food from their car. Harry's idea caught on and California's first drive-thru hamburger stand was born.[2]

Is this true? Were they also the first in the U.S.? In the world? This is a great fact if we can nail it down. -Willmcw 10:18, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

well if the company advertises "California's first drive-thru" all over the place, I think it is not the nation or world's first, otherwise the company would have braged about this everywhere. Although Fast food article states: "Wendy's, founded in 1972, is credited with pioneering the use of the "drive-thru" window to allow consumers to purchase fast food without having to park or exit their cars." but I dont know what they mean by "pioneering". To me In-N-Out was very pioneering and it started in 1948, 22 years earlier. I made this same discussion on "Fast food" article's talk page -- AlexTheMartian | Talk 10:00, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
Apparently Red's Giant Hamburgs was first in the US/world, 1947.--Berol 03:01, 10 August 2006 (UTC)


The first drive-thru in America is acknowledged as being invented by Boston sophisticate Isabella Stewart Gardner. She and a small crowd of friends went around asking for room service meals in their cars, a`la Beverly Hills Cop. Wise King Otto 19:01, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Picture of the original In-N-Out

I'm surprised there's no picture of the original In-N-Out location. I'll have some free time this weekend to take a picture. --FloBrio 20:49, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

"Made to order"?

Doesnt "Made to order" mean the food is prepared ahead of time before the order is placed? In-n-Out makes their food upon ordering, not beforehand. I havent edited it because this has me doubting my definition of "Made ot Order".

No, "made to order" means that it is made according to the customer's wishes. -Willmcw 16:27, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for clearing that up!

In-n-Out is Absurd

It is so damn tasty. I'd go get some right now if it weren't 2:35am. Double-Double, two fries, and a rootbeer.

Word Isaac Crumm 07:25, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Stock Burger

To the best of my knowledge, pickles come with the stock burger. I got two Double-Doubles a few hours ago, and they both came with pickles without me specifying one way or another. Can anyone confirm or deny? This may be a local variation? -JoeMeyerowitz 0857, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

It might have been a mistake. I don't recall ever getting pickles with a stock hamburger. Frogular 01:42, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
Stock burgers do not come with pickles. Your order probably just got mixed up with someone else's. Stock burgers will have Spread, Lettuce, Tomato, and optional onion.TheRob 07:39, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
There are small chopped up pickles in the spread. Maybe thats what Joe means? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Manfrin (talk • contribs) .

Pictures

This article should have a normal Double-Double meal as a picture somewhere towards the top portion of the page. It is actually a bit disgusting to see only a 20x20, 8x8, and animal-style fries as the only food photographs on the article. Dont get me wrong I love In-N-Out, my home is a few blocks from where it was founded. -- AlexTheMartian | Talk 09:21, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

cut-off sentence

can somebody complete this cut-off sentence, the 4th bullet under 'Store layout'?: "food preparation area (where the tomatoes, onions," -- AlexTheMartian | Talk 09:32, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I added an ending, but it doesnt flow well/work with the structure of the rest of the lines. Stil needs to be fixed, but now it's not incomplete. Manfrin 08:36, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Trailer

There's a photo of the trailer on the main page, but it's incredibly blurry. Is there a better photo floating around that can be added?

Funny story

My mother told me that her sister (my aunt) who has lived in California for almost 50 years now, has a son (my cousin) who is the manager/owner of an In-N-Out Burger, I told her "I think that's a California thing!"

  • and thats a funny story why? live at the witch trials 18:28, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Yeah.... no one really cares. Give me one reason why you think this should be on WP Wizrdwarts 19:58, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Dirty style fries?

Before I moved to Bellevue, WA, I recently ordered french fries that were pretty much cut fresh from the unpeeled spud - grab a potato, cut it, and drop it in the fryers. Customer service said that this is the first they've heard of it. I therefore propose "fries, dirty", after Dirty Potato Chips, but I'm not yet inclined to add this to the main entry. Thoughts? --Dennis The TIger 03:51, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Naw, since noone calls it that, and it's not common. This isn't the first time I've of heard it existing though. -- Jjjsixsix (t)/(c) @ 03:54, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Lack of mayonnaise

I'm surprised no one has mentioned their lack of plain mayonnaise. As someone who hates both ketchup/katsup and mustard, but also dislikes a dry burger, this is a major sticking point for me when eating there. My friends all love the place but since I can't get just mayonaise I try to avoid the place. Ironically they provide ketchup and mustard packets but for some reason no mayonnaise packets, which it seems would be the obvious solution. I actually e-mailed and then eventually called the company to discuss this with their PR reps once and they said they really didn't know why they had no mayonnaise. They gave me the number of the guy who runs the warehouse and purchase division but I never called. This subject came up again recently in a discussion with friends so I just may get back onto it and see if I can get them to at least carry mayonnaise packets in the store. Again I am rather surprised no one else seems to care about this.

  • Would ordering a side of spread (#1 ingredient is mayo) do it for you? People usually order it for their fries. Berol 01:18, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

20x20

That thing is nasty. That's engough meat to feed every ethiopian and give them morbid obesity as well. 201.23.64.2 01:28, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, that's pretty evil. I've uploaded the standard press image for the DD combo, so I'm going to work on linking the bugger and nuking that 20x20 image. --Dennis The TIger 05:46, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

TV/Movie references

The main reason for removing the list is that it's unencyclopedic. These TV/Movie references are not significant events--not even to In-N-Out. Cruft of this nature reduces the quality of the article. --Yath 05:10, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

The "quality of the article?" This is an article about a fast food hamburger stand. We have an entire article on Abraham Lincoln in popular media, I think we can afford to have a dozen entries in this article. If you want to start a campaign against all such sections then that'd be different. But until the other similar sections are rmeoved from the thousnd of Wikipedia articles where they exist I don't think we should be so picky about this article. -Will Beback 05:18, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I fail to see why this article shouldn't be of high quality. If you don't believe that Wikipedia is a "real encyclopedia", don't drag it down for the rest of us.
And consistency among articles, while important, is far less important than the quality of the articles themselves. In other words, consistency is good when it improves articles, but utterly falls by the wayside if it should happen to degrade them. The argument that In-N-Out should have a tv/movie reference list simply because other articles do is empty. I have no qualms whatsoever about fixing problems where I see them without necessarily fixing every similar problem that might exist elsewhere. --Yath 05:25, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Religious Motivation

I have heard (though there is nothing to confirm this) that the owners refuse to build any chains in Utah, because of the state's history and affiliation with the Mormon church. That seems to discriminatory for me to believe it, has anyone else out there heard of this?

The article mentions expansion into Utah. This sounds like an urban legend linked in someway to the bible references and the beliefs of the owners. MrMurph101 19:20, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
News articles from multiple press sources in 2004 have them set for construction at Telegraph Marketplace in Washington, Utah. (A website claims the X palm trees were planted sometime in the last 2 years and that's it so far.) They don't have plans to expand much further into the US because they process meat in the LA area and ship it fresh to all 200+ locations by truck. It'd be less than fresh by the time they'd truck it to Portland or Salt Lake City according to one of their execs. Berol 01:09, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

As I am an employee, I have heard from management that they are planning expansion into Southwestern Utah. Bridarshy 08:02, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Aside from the pending rumors of expansion into Utah, deliberately avoiding Utah would not be a wise business move. An In-N-Out in Provo would be an absolute dream come true for thousands of residents, especially BYU students from California. In-N-Out Burger is also an extremely popular place for young LDS people to hang out and grub.Isaac Crumm 07:29, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

A tv web video news thing said the above Utah restaurant will open early next year. I wondered if the Chadders suit forced their hand.--Berol 09:20, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Company Raises

By the end of September there will be company raises where the employees will start at a pay of $9.50 an hour.

Right. Currently they pay a quarter more per hour in Northern CA. If they give .50 cent raises to them aswell then they will be getting $9.75, and everyone else $9.50. Bridarshy 00:52, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Esther Snyder

Some recent anonymous edits point to the recent passing of Mrs. Snyder. I've called the customer service line; she indeed passed on the afternoon of 04Aug2006. --Dennis The TIger 16:35, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

  • I created her own stub article. I'll probably do the same for Harry today. It has a source for her death, and there are now several in the article. Wikibofh(talk) 14:18, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
  • I did the original anonymous ones. OC Register says Taylor is President in today's paper, so I updated. I put up the original Mark Taylor-Lynsi Martinez relationship cuz it's from a news article and wanted to show how it's at least loosely in the family. What occurred to me last night is if the only kids of Harry and Esther were boys, their granddaughters should be Snyders. If Mark Taylor is Lynsi's brother-in-law, then her last name would likely be Snyder or Taylor. Unless there's an unusual situation, it might be misinformation. Maybe there was a daughter who married a Martinez and had Lynsi?! Also, revenue has an unofficial estimate of $370 million for 2005 by Restaurants & Institutions magazine. I wasn't sure about putting an estimate into the profile box. Berol 01:10, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the work. I have no problem with an estimate that is sourced.  :) Taylor could be be Lynsi's husbands's brother-in-law. The possiblities are virtually endless.  :) Thanks for the updates and the sources. Wikibofh(talk) 00:10, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
  • I found a 2003 revenue estimate of $77.7 million (and 3,584 employees). Too much variance, so I'll leave revenue as NA.--Berol 07:56, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Although I can't provide much of a citation for this, I know our revenue is much higher than those estimates. We have 200+ stores. Just by knowing the weekly burger sales and the labor percentage that we manage to, I came up with $3.7 million in revenue per store for total company wide revenue of about $740 million. Also I know we have over 10,000 employees. Bridarshy 05:48, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

hey lynsi is indeed the granddaughter of esther and harry snyder. her maiden name WAS snyder before she was married last year to her husband who's last name is martinez. mark taylor is her half-sister's(from mother) husband. hope this clears up the confusion.

The R-rated INO Bumper Stickers

I am surprised no-one has discussed what used to be done with In-n-Out bumper stickers in the 1980's. Because of the way the logo was, it was very common to see In-n-Out bumper stickers with the letter "B" and the second "R" in "BURGER" cut off from the stickers to create a whole new sexually explicit message. In-n-Out eventually redesigned the sticker.

Trademarks

I think this section should go, but would like to discuss first. My question is, what does it add to the article? Virtually all corporations register trademarks, and In-N-Out is no exception. The number of TMs they have is so large that the list can't be comprehensive, and I'm not sure what it tells us. As an example, a TM search for just "In-N-Out" returns 63 records, and that doesn't include all the others in this list. [3] Wikibofh(talk) 15:45, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

  • None of the trademark links work for me. With encyclopedias being along the lines of general overviews, listing that many is a bit too much of a dip into detail for me. I could say the same of the secret menu section, but I wanna keep it for now. :) --Berol 19:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
  • probably session based. Go to the website and just do a search for "In-N-Out" and you'll see them. Wikibofh(talk) 23:24, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
  • (That worked. The trademark links in the article have the same problem, tho.) The cutout story is all over the place, but can't find good sources. I'm guessing that registering Urge was a legal move which they let die after the redesign. I don't consider it an important part of the company story, but it looks to have been big with customers for awhile.--Berol 08:13, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Cult status

The 'cult status' section seems suspiciously like a marketing hype to me. Is the fact that a celebrity (Bob Hope, Angelina Jolie) has eaten an In-and-Out burger really that notable? I'm sure thousands of celebrities has eaten all sorts of fast food. And product placement in movies is a standard procedure, but the wording of this section makes it seem like something exceptional. Ashmoo 23:32, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The parts you mentioned specifically may indeed not be notable, but the rest of the section is true. --Yath 00:00, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
What I see, is if you read the reference, that Joilee left the Oscars early to go. The fact that Vanity fair is having them cater also seems to indicate it. What I get from it is not that it's advertising, but that these are high profile cases of their status. Can you think of another fastfood restaurant that gets that sort of publicity? Also, FWIW, that section is sourced from independent media, not the company itself.  :) Wikibofh(talk) 01:27, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Maybe call it something besides "Cult following". I was just thinking to myself with how many people in LA (or formerly in LA, moved to Scottsdale/Phoenix and the bay area, etc) love the place, I'd say it's more on the side of 'popular' than 'cult.' But broader definitions exist that say 'cult following' fits. The problem is probably that it's 2:30am and my brain is tired.--Berol 09:39, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

More in the news. I don't think it is worthy of being in the article. Paris Hilton claims to be going to In-N-Out when arrested for dui. [4] Wikibofh(talk) 18:17, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Burger section

"Although big burgers have been very popular in the past, the company has decided to set limits to the amount of meat in one burger." That sentence is vague. Does it refer to the size of the hamburger patties (true to at least some degree) or the number of patties (untrue)?--Berol 18:59, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


  • I believe it was meant to be on the number of patties. You'll notice it's a got the "fact" tag because someone has claimed it to be true, and you claim it isn't, so we need some sort of source.  :) Wikibofh(talk) 19:40, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
  • If it's true, it's a very recent change. There is a 30x30 claim for January and a 26x26 that was in the press in June from sometime earlier this year.--Berol 07:38, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Just got it from the horse's mouth. Howard at customer service indicates that there are, indeed, 8x8 limiters on the burgers. Reasons cited were quality control, packaging, and general presentation - and they don't really see it as an issue, as it's not common for somebody to order larger than a 4x4. --Dennis The TIger 19:19, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
  • Thanks for fixing my brain.--Berol 20:38, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Early History

I once asked an employee via e-mail why the opening years for the restaurants are: #1 1948, #2 1959, #3 1962, #4 1951, #5 1952, #6 1966. He asked his manager who told him that In-N-Out was a partnership. It went sour and the other partner left the company with restaurants #2 and #3 to make his own business which failed. INO re-purchased the restaurants and re-opened them in 1959 and 1962. It could be nonsense as I have never heard so much as a hint of a partnership elsewhere and it is completely uncertified.--Berol 08:43, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

HEY IN-N-OUT DID START AS A PARTNERSHIP BETWEEN HARRY AND A MAN BY THE NAME OF CHARLES NODDIN. HARRY WHO WAS MUCH YOUNGER ENVISIONED THE IN-N-OUT OF TODAY WHILE NODDIN ENVISONED A MORE "MC DONALDS" STYLE IN-N-OUT. THE DISAGREED ON THE BUSINESS STYLE. SO HARRY TOOK STORES 1, 4, AND 5 WHILE CHARLES TOOK 2, 3, AND 6. CHARLES' STORE DIDN'T LAST LONG BECAUSE OF HIS LACK OF QUALITY AND SO ON. HARRY THEN BOUGHT THE CHARLES'S STORES AND RE-LOCATED THEM TO THEIR NOW EXISTING PLACES, HOWEVER HARRY CHOSE TO NOT RE-NUMBER THE STORES. HENCE THE LATER DATES FOR 2, 3, AND 6. I KNOW THIS CAUSE I 'VE WORKED FOR THE COMPANY FOR FOUR YEARS, PLUS WHEN YOU GO INTO MANAGEMENT YOU TAKE AN IN-N-OUT HISTORY CLASS. BYE! - JOE

Thanks for the info, but you don't need to SHOUT! Please turn off your caps lock key. MrMurph101 17:14, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
[5] There's a Charles Noddin source if anyone wants to add some of this to the article.--Berol 02:57, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Burger size limitations

Per my note above, there is now a limiter to 8x8 for sandwiches - and they will not add cheese beyond that. I left the "fact" tag in because I actually got this from a phone call to customer service rather than a published source - so it would be cool if somebody can find a published source for this information. --Dennis The TIger 19:24, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

  • All I can find are on blogs. One in 2002 says the 8x8 limit was around then. Wonder if they're more lax about it when lines are absent. --Berol 20:53, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
    • There was a recently uploaded picture with a blog link of a 100x100. (Or, more precisely, a double-double with 98 extra), so it still seems possible. Here is the blog entry. Wikibofh(talk) 15:12, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Over the last two years that I have been working at In N Out, I have never heard anything about this limitation, except on Wikipedia. There may very well be a policy that you can't get more than an 8x8, especially if that is that customer service said, but that doesn't mean everyone knows about it, or that the managers care to enforce it. Bridarshy 08:07, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

the new rule is nothing bigger than a 4x4. too many cooks out there not producing quality burgers. any store found selling anything bigger can and will be in HUGE trouble. my personal view...i think it's ridiculos, but i'm only one person. feel free to voice your opinions by calling customer service @ 1.800.786.1000. tell them you want your 5x5's, 8x8's and 10x10's back. for god's sake all you want to do is eat the thing. peace and love.

They have changed this policy yet again. Now the current limit is 4x6. Bridarshy 07:13, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Fast Food Nation

Should the fact that In-N-Out was discussed favorably in the book 'Fast Food Nation' be included in the article? Rsm99833 01:03, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Missed that in the article. Thanks.Rsm99833 05:01, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Florida In-N-Out

I added the {{fact|nested=yes}} tag about a week ago to this section. If something doesn't come up shortly, I'm going to nuke the section. Looking online, the only references I could find showed it to apparently be a company location. That being said, the company website doesn't show it. Anyone in FL care to comment? Wikibofh(talk) 15:07, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Might want to crosspost to Talk:Gainesville, Florida. Probably not too many Floridians following this page. --Paul E. Ester 15:12, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
See the top few posts at [6]. There is [7] which says "There used to be an In 'N' Out fast food restaurant in Gainesville, owned and operated by a husband and wife team. However, this husband and wife team eventually disbanded and the wife got a fast food restaurant out of the settlement. Instead of crying about the situation, our man Ralph got him some property across the street and opened a place called Ralph's Drive Thru, and eventually drove his poor ex-wife out of business." Then there is the locations listing at in-n-out.com. Somewhere (maybe here), I read that it was a small chain and Gainesville is the only surviving location. It's still listed in online phone directories. If it's not around anymore, I'd change it to "not to be confused with the defunct..." or kill it. If it lives, I'd post a disambiguous article [in-n-out & in-n-out (florida)] and maybe kill it.--Berol 20:14, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
      • I did crosspost. Thanks for digging up those references. I'll give it a few more days, and if nothing changes, will nuke it. Wikibofh(talk) 14:25, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
        • Nothing posted. Nuked the section. Wikibofh(talk) 04:33, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

hey it's me again...when harry and charles split in the 50's both had claims on the name In-N-Out. Charles moved to florida and opened up his In-N-Out's. since it was a west coast-east coast thing both decided they would never have to compete with eachother. i beleive the gentleman you refer to above might be charles' son. last i heard there were still a few florida in-n-out's around. last year the company was choosing new states for our next ventures. utah's a sealed deal, but they then had to choose between texas and florida and because of the other in-n-out chain the company went with texas(expect them in about 4 years). i think they are waiting for the florida chain to die out or enough time to pass so they can regain the entire rights to in-n-out's name. not to sure on the specifics. - joe.

Joe, don't you toy with me about In-N-Out coming to Texas, because if they don't I'll be highly disappointed. Can you link me anywhere to this reference, and if so could it be put on the main page? 68.90.16.2 14:40, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I can confirm it is a fact that there was a In-and-Out burgers in Gainesville, FL. I used to go by it all the time as a kid when my parents drove down 13th street. It went out of bussines long ago. I don't recall anything about the couple who owned it. However, the actual building survived. It was closed-up for a long time, I think maybe it was a drive-thru pharmacy for a bit, and eventually became El-Indio, a popular local Mexican fast food joint. FWIW. --Jeff The Riffer 18:45, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey all (and hey Jeff!). Yes, Gainesville has had at least two In-N-Outs that I can remember (since 1984). The current El Indio Restaurant at 407 NW 13th Street and the whatever is on the northwest corner of SW 2nd Ave and SW 3rd Street. I do remember Ralph's Drive Thru across the street from the later location. All these places have been closed up for some time now. Regards, chris (11/18/2006)

In the past, Gainesville had at least four In-N-Out locations (presumably not related to the California based chain). One on Archer Road approximately where the Jiffy Lube is now, one on 13th Street that is now El Indio, one at SW 2nd Ave and 3rd St, and one that still survives where Hawthorn Road meets E. University Avenue (See for example [8]). I have no idea whether there were ever any Florida In-N-Outs outside of Gainesville. Bobomatic 20:32, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Open and closing times

I had removed these because of two reasons.

  1. It didn't seem encyclopedic, because we're not a restaurant guide. A quick perusal of other restaurant entries (Chipotle_Mexican_Grill, Outback Steakhouse, Wendy's, Baja Fresh) all fail to have opening or closing times.
  2. It wasn't consistent. Saying, "They open and close at X & Y, except for those that don't" (I paraphrase for humor value) didn't seem to add much to me.

What is consensus on this? Wikibofh(talk) 14:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't see anything significant about it with describing the company or its history as written. Saying why a few places close earlier would be slightly better, but not much. It could compare to competitors in saying that no locations are open 24 hours as even drive-thru lanes close with the restaurants, then maybe list the hours. It seems like they'd make Vegas an exception, but nopers.--Berol 22:27, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Fundamentally, is it encyclopedic? I'm not arguing whether or not it's true (although I think a lack of consistency means that it is not true), but is it encyclopedic? Wikibofh(talk) 23:42, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
I was saying nonencyclopedic (never seen operating hours in an encyclopedia) or pointless, but might work if the angle was changed to what I babbled about. Thanks for the answer down there. I'd been guessing local ordinance.--Berol 09:13, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
  • I too don't see that it fits well in that section. Even though I put it back in I might agree with you that it is not encyclopedic. Then again, so is a lot of the information on this page. It is still likely useful to readers. If you would like to remove it again I have no problem with that. Maybe it would be better to just delete the part about some stores closing early.
  • To answer Berol's question, they close that Mill Valley store and some others early because after 12:00am there are hardly any customers. If I recall correctly that particular store that I cited in Mill Valley is in a business park. Bridarshy 04:23, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Secret menu section...

Why do we have a long list, and THEN much of the same material in prose form in the subsections? For the record, I prefer the prose forms after a quick glance. Wikibofh(talk) 23:46, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Probably intended as a quick reference? I'd say leave both in for that reason, or separate out the secret menu list into its own entry. --Dennis The TIger 05:43, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
I've been considering similar for a long time, highlights in the article (M by C burgers, shake swirls, animal styles, etc.) and a second article for the full list.--Berol 09:21, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
I'd say do it, and provide a link to the outside. Real Life(TM) provides that I can't really do this, but I'll help in my copious spare time. =^_^= --Dennis The TIger 16:39, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Jay Leno

Does the current edit really belong part of the article? It's not verified, and seems really non-notable. Rsm99833 02:58, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

  • I have reverted back to my version. I think not...we're already in the "aww..shucks" area with some of the celebrities, but at least those are sourced. I also didn't see how a high school fundraiser and a wholesale reordering of the section accomplished much. IMO. Wikibofh(talk) 03:06, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
I'm going to concur with Wikibofh here, if only because BHHS is not alone in their use of the trailer as a fundraiser. --Dennis The TIger 05:45, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

none by one

This item is neither listed on the official "secret menu". nor is it listed anywhere on any website I looked at on Google (four pages of looking). Besides, the idea is covered well in "X by Y". There is no reason for this to be listed. I suspect the person doing the entry has dubious reasons for adding it. Rsm99833 05:20, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Haha. You are right. A "none by one" is not common terminology for a grilled cheese with just one slice. That would be called a grilled cheese with one slice of cheese. someone probably heard it from a fiend or something of the sort and thought it sounded cool. I love your explanation though... Dubious? I just really have to wrack my brain to imagine what this dubious reason is... Bridarshy 05:50, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I say that, mostly because of the user ignoring requests to participate in this discussion, respond to discussions on their page, or add in anything as far as edit changes. while their intentions may be good, the behavior is that of vandals. Rsm99833 05:57, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Heh. Yah, it doesn's look like they are participating aside from that one time. Bridarshy 06:01, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

  • They moved over to In-N-Out Burger secret menu for at least one pass. Wikibofh(talk) 06:07, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Advertising

"In-N-Out's use of the occasional radio spot and billboard, simultaneously echoing the sequential billboard ads of the 1950s and apprising West-Coasters traveling through spacious California that a precious In-N-Out is nearby--an oasis in the wilderness--may be the ideal campaign for an establishment that wants to both evoke the burger joints of the 1950s and has almost no need whatsover for advertising due to the continually immense demand for In-N-Out burgers."

I'm not sure if I'm not getting this cuz I'm sick or if it's a mess. The first part is a supposition of what the best ad campaign is instead of a statement of fact. The description of the ideal campaign may be a bit much for an encyclopedia without direct quotes from someone. 'Almost no need for advertising' is questionable. And then there is defining 'immense demand.' Anything keepable in the paragraph?--Berol 20:19, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Free Coffee

  • I just found out that it is company policy to allow customers to get free coffee if they provide their own cup. Does anyone think this has a worthy spot anywhere in the article? Bridarshy 07:59, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Unsubstantiated criticism

I removed the phrase "*Some people complain about the lack of options the In-N-Out menu has to offer in comparsion to their McDonalds counterparts." from the "Criticism" section. How do you prove something like this? Who are "some people"? PacificBoy 16:31, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

"Some people would be anyone in the group of those complaining. They have the fewest entree items of any fast food chain I've ever heard of. Bridarshy 16:44, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

  • "Some people" are weasel words, to be avoided whenever possible. Wikibofh(talk) 21:14, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, "some people" also like hamsters with their cereal, but so what? Isaac Crumm 07:30, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Corporate culture

In addition to the flowery adjectives of unvarnished praise (sounds like it came directly from the PR folks at corporate HQ), there are no citations to back up any of the fantastic claims. Proof please. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.27.200.205 (talk) 00:16, 23 January 2007 (UTC).

Edited the paragraph to remove unrelated opinions and touts (e.g. efficiency wages for high production, unheard of in the rest of the industry, one of the very few fast-food chains) for the company. As the company operates only in three states (mostly all in California), one should compare similar companies that operate mainly in California and of course a citation to make the comparison is also needed. The paragraph is still weak because the citations are from questionable sources or from In 'N Out's website 24.27.200.205 07:46, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

  • I like most of your edits, but disagree that the current citations are deficient. Company website is fine for facts about the company, and the other is a link to NPR, which is an extremely credible news organization. I think a link to efficiency wages as a rationale behind their high wages is good for the article, but I'm not stuck on it either. The last citation on the Child abuse prevention was the best online citation I can find, but it does appear to be true. Thanks for the work. One of the few times in recent memory I wasn't just rolling back and blocking an anon editor.  :) Wikibofh(talk) 13:48, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Actually the other link is not to NPR - it's to funtrivia.com and that's what I consider questionable. Using the company website as a reference is fine provided it's neutral & factual (not self-laudatory puff or hyperbole) and it's verifiable information within the control and expertise of the company. Further, it should be noted in the article as, "According to the company's website..." to highlight that the information is not impartial or independently verified. Also, I'm curious as to why one believes it's necessary to highlight the company's philanthropy when it's not done in other articles for similar companies? There is no reason to note such efforts unless they're particular notable or beyond the usual good corporate citizenship practices relating to charity. The fact that it's uniquely done for this company along with the laudatory adjectives and very muted criticism is indicative of an obvious point of view that's highly favorable towards the company. That's fine if you're wanting to push a particular burger brand but it makes for a crappy encyclopedia. This article really deserves an NPOV tag.24.27.207.110 09:09, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

The Criticism section had large chunks deleted awhile back from lack of references. It's a bear to find anything useable beyond people wishing they had INO locally.--Berol 10:55, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

  • I wish there was an In-N-Out where I now live, but that's not a NPOV response. As In-N-Out is a fast food joint with a limited menu of high fat options, there is certainly valid criticism which I've added and cited. Also, you didn't respond to the major point about reprinting charity PR from their website. Unless it's standard to include corporate charity statements as part of every article on restaurants, it should be removed.Markbyrn 16:49, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
    • That was my point about local INO's, not a real criticism. I don't have an opinion on the charity stuff. Stuff set up by the companies has some validity for inclusion in articles, tho McD's article says nothing about Ronald McDonald House. It's all the same to me if it's in or out. BTW, It's possible to order a salad (tomatos, lettuce and sauce from a burger), although as stated in the article, it isn't on the menu. It used to be called "on the sal".--Berol 09:51, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Valencia Design

"the restaurant in Valencia mimics the interior of a Mc Donalds[citation needed]"

The Valencia restaurant uses one of the most common cookie cutter layouts, with at least 3 In-N-Outs along the 5 freeway sharing the same layout. Unless anyone can verify this statement, it should be removed.

--75.80.45.241 02:16, 27 February 2007 (UTC)


I completely agree. Not sure who put this in, but if the Valencia In-N-Out is the one by Magic Mountain, it's in no way made to mimic a McDonalds. Take it out. I, for one, as a cult supporter, am offended. Oh, yes, to all who say In-N-Out is not a cult classic in SoCal, well, it is. --Tindrum 21:56, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

There is no In-N-Out near Magic Mountain or in Valencia. There's two in Canyon Country and one in Newhall though. bibliomaniac15 00:40, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

The In-N-Out that the original quote refers to is [this location]. I have seen this location driving down I-5 quite a few times, and I am 99.9% sure that it not only looks like a McDonald's, but IS a converted McDonald's (not a Burger King as the guy who posted the photo says).

The terra-cotta slanted roof (the top part is usually removed when McD's vacates a location, according to [this site]), the white brick exterior, and that big block jutting out of the side, are dead giveaways. My local McDonald's (San Ramon, CA) looks exactly like that In-N-Out.

Compare to [this photo] (albeit this is the opposite side from the In-N-Out photo).

Case closed.--TServo2049 18:25, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Popularity

I think that the part in the popularity section of the article where it states: "In 1999, after Sergeant Andrew Ramirez, who had been a POW for a month in Serbia, was released, his first request was for a Double-Double (his mother got one to him)." I might be wrong, but I believe this to be a little off topic and maybe should be deleted. I am not to worried about this, but could someone please leave their opinion here to let me know whether or not it should be taken out?

--Robin63 04:10, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind if all the citings of single people liking INO were removed (or mentions on TV for that matter), but I'm not that worried abo ut it, either.--Berol 05:29, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

It is definitely noteworthy. Think of all the things a recently released POW would plausibly want to have firstIsaac Crumm 07:32, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

It's a noteworthy moment, but not of great importance to INO's history. If he started a tradition of INO greeting naval ships at San Diego with a burger truck, then we'd have something worth entering.--Berol 06:23, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

INO in Pop Culture

Is there any significance of any of these entries? Ok, a guy in a film where's an INO shirt. If Carl Sagan wore an Atari 2600 shirt would that need to go in that article? If some well-known fictional character (or celebrity) is known for being a big fan and raves about it all the time that might be worth mentioning but not every quick mention. MrMurph101 23:53, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

secret menu redux

Alas! After a lengthy deletion debate In-n-out secret menu was deleted. Now the section in this article will need to be built up again... here's some sources: [9] [10]. Sigh... -- phoebe/(talk) 04:05, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

The stuff already in the article are stretching the rules as it is.--Berol 19:29, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Is there a way to get a veggie burger that actually has a vegetable burger pattie? How about a way to have a neapolitan root beer shake/float? 71.136.233.5 02:37, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

this article is accurate and mature

Kudos to the authors of this article! I've worked at an In-N-Out in Union City, California (SF Bay Area) for 3 months in 2002, and everything I could possibly remember is in this article. Good job on the history of In-N-Out, the 'secret menu' (which is just common requests that have been given a name), and the overall format. I'm very impressed. In-N-Out is the only fast-food joint I have ever known where employees are happy to do custom orders and where the burgers, veggies, and potatoes are all fresh, delivered daily, and prepared by hand. cipher_nemo 17:22, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Cipher_nemo, this question is directed at you, i am once again asking if you can get a neapolitan with root beer float/shake? Thanks, 71.136.233.5

BlastContra 00:06, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I will make you any kind of float you want. You want a lemonade float? We can make it. Hope that helps!

Whammy Burger

The chain of edits that led to the "Whammy Burger" starts with an edit by Bridarshy that added:

In-N-Out's Protein Style has been around since 1954, not just since the low-carb craze.

An edit by 66.27.146.54 changed this to:

In-N-Out's Protein Style has been around since 1948, not just since the low-carb craze. Originally called a "Whammy Burger".

A recent cleanup edit by Whitebox integrates this with the Protein Style entry in the Secret Menu section:

Instead of a bun, the burger is wrapped in lettuce. In addition to burgers, a protein style Grilled Cheese is available. In-N-Out's Protein Style has been around since 1948, not just since the low-carb craze. Originally called a "Whammy Burger".

        I suspect the "Whammy Burger" comment was a joke. If someone has a sound source for this, please post it. Bridarshy has a reputable edit history and has commented that he works for the company. Nonetheless, there's an AP article that appeared in the Oakland Tribune on March 26, 2004 that paraphrases Carl Van Fleet, In-N-Out Burger's vice president of planning, as saying that customers both named and created the "protein style" burger, in a sense, when they started asking for it in the early 1970s.
        The book Dr. Atkins' Diet Revolution was released in 1972, hitting the New York Times Best Seller list and staying there for years. If the quote by Van Fleet be correct, the first wave of the low-carb craze to hit American consciousness and the Protein Style burger are coincident. I'll go ahead and modify the article. If anyone can gainsay this and has a source for the 1954 date, please post it. — VulcanOfWalden 18:14, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't sure if it was a joke or what, but I did notice that the whammy burger line is a fragment sentence.--Berol 18:43, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't have any way to reference that, but it was stated in an employee newsletter from when I worked there that we have been making a such a burger since 1954. (Not 1948 when the first In N Out opened.) I can't verify that but thought you all might want to know for yourselves.Bridarshy 13:02, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Menu Items

As that section and the one under it dealing with (apparently) secret items, I propose a new page In-N-Out Burger Menu Items which can deal with both these sections. Any suggestions?xC | ☎ 09:39, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

DonexC | ☎ 10:59, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
Note that per the AfD of the new article, I believe that the right thing to do is to prune that article and merge it back here. Pascal.Tesson 21:46, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Well, I can't say I agree with the merge back in. Possibly improvement to that article yes, but as a subject, it's not at all unreasonable to cover the menu of a restaurant on its own page. FrozenPurpleCube 20:30, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

The page is large enough as is, it won't help the article's content in any way by merging back the content from the menu page to the article main page. Leave it on its own page, I say. xC | ☎ 09:14, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Issues with Criticism section

I have two issues with the criticism section:

  1. For the first point, In-n-Out does only offer one size of french fries, however it is not comparable in size to McDonalds small french fries. The In-n-Out size fries are probably more comparable to that of the medium McDonalds fries. The nutritional facts will be slightly more than what is listed, though by how much I do not know.
  2. The second point, "For years In-N-Out has not listed the amounts of trans fat in their food; however, the company's website now shows trans-fat for all of their food," isn't false, however, most fast food restaurants and casual dining restaurants have not listed the amounts of trans fat in their food "for years." Listing of trans fat has been a recently trend and development, especially with the U.S. government now requiring it. So that makes the qouted statement redundant, as only recently and still currently trans fat information is being added. Also, there is no evidence of for how long specifically it wasn't listed, and when it eventually was ("for years" could just be two years or twenty); the ref just links to In-n-Out's nutritional fact page. --theSpectator talk 08:02, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
I think the first point doesn't deserve to be included as part of the criticism section. Reasons - one, we don't have quotes/opinions (cited/referenced of course) of an individual or organisation raising protest about it. Two, its more a comparison, rather than criticism. The negative tone of the sentences makes it appear to be a bad thing (which it indded may be). Three, that entire portion about salads and juices being unavailable is irrelevant. What the joint offers is entirely its own business, if the individual wants salads and juices they should go find someplace which will serve it to them - I don't see any refs for an individual (or anything else) stating that people have raised concerns about salads and juices not being available at this particular burger joint.
If indeed anyone would like to keep that sentence above, then we should rename the section to Comparison of nutritional facts - ie. In-N-Out versus the other fast food chains.
Your second point is spot on - it is redundant.
In summary, the entire section Criticism is flawed and it might be better to do away with it entirely.xC | ☎ 11:09, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

deletion of Popular Culture section

Anybody have a good argument for not deleting the entire "In-n-Out in popular culture" section? At best, a summary paragraph would go into the Popularity section. (INO is appearing in pop culture as popularity increases including this show, that movie,...) I'll remove it in a month if there isn't much objection, unless someone beats me to it before then. --Berol 21:54, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I second the thought of removing the popular section. At the very least, the bottom section regarding "notorious street racing" is irrelevant and poorly written as reference material. --GatoMuerto 21:21, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

boiled it down to a couple of sentences in "Popularity" and deleted --Berol 22:20, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Merger

yes to merger with menu. Feralfeline 04:22, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Has already been discussed at length before. The article menu items is huge as it is and cannot be integrated back into the main article. If you would like to cut down on whats in the article on menu items, thats a different ball game altogether. If you have an issue with the 'secret' menu items, thats been discussed as well and closed as no consensus.

Apologies if it seems I'm piling on the whole case study on to you, just wanted to note the three main discussions that recur on this article. Happy editing,xC | ☎ 13:54, 26 September 2007 (UTC)