Talk:Hygelac
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[edit] a little fault.
Danes is and was NOT used as a general term of "all" Scandinavians. Danes was Danes, like Geats was Geats. Two different tribes. The saga about Hygelac tells that he was from born from the Danish dynasty, but were the king of the Geats. That's why he also could be king of some Danes (properly those from to Skåne area). And that´s properly why he told him self as a Dane at to the Franks -Historiae Francorum III 3, or that the Franks believed he was a Dane. We also don´t know who his followers were. There could be many Danes among as it was closer to the Francia. We also have to admit that this was in the 5´th century. ....................................
Actually 'Danes' was used regulary as a name for any Scandinavians...though mainly by Anglo-Saxons and some other peoples. I have not read that Hygelac was a Dane, the only account that calls him a Dane is this. The Geats are called East-Danes in a part of Beowulf (most likely due to the alliance with the Danes) and thus I think that it is likely that they are called Danes here for similar reasons. I think Gregory of Tours is very much mistaken, he does seem to use Dane like the Anglo-Saxons would.
I think this part should have been left in the article as there is hardly any evidence that Hygelac was a Dane or that he did or did not have Danish blood. What is important is that he is a Geat, THE Geat, as he is the King of the Geats and was obvioualy not a King of Denmark:
"In these sources he appears as Chlochilaicus, king of the Geats (Rex Getarum, in Liber Monstrorum, and Rege Gotorum in a copy of Historiae Francorum of Gregory of Tours), or the Danes (in most copies of Historiae Francorum, III, 3.), who invaded the Frankish Kingdoms in the early sixth century, and was killed by Theudebert, king of the Franks.
The double identification of Hygelac as either Dane or Geat is not surprising, since Dane seems to have been used as a generic term for Scandinavians (cf. Danish tongue and East Dane)." - Hesselius
- This is easy to understand if you read Jordane's Getica, where it says that the Danes were Swedes, or possibly Geats (or both), who occupied the Danish islands after having driven away the Heruls (who by the way also came from Sweden). Thus, when king Hrothgar speaks of the Geats as "East-Danes", it is not suggesting a Danish expansion eastwards, but a Danish expansion westwards. /Leos Friend (talk) 02:46, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Date of death
This article has Hygelac's Frisian raid and death dated to 516. I thought Gregory said 521? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.215.53.111 (talk) 00:59, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] One or several kings?
Except in Beo. and the Liber Monstrorum, Hygelac is referred to as a king of the Danes, rather than the Geats or Gautar. In Saxo Grammaticus and Sturluson as well, Hugletus/Hugleikr (Hygelac) is called a king of the Danes. --Missip1 (talk) 16:03, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
- Well, just because Saxo, Snorri and Beowulf mention a king by a special name does not mean that they are one and the same. Snorri's and Saxo's stories have no ressemblance to the story of Hygelac in Beowulf and in Frankish accounts. Moreoever, in Snorri's account Hugleikr was a Swedish king.--Berig (talk) 16:12, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
