Talk:Hydrodesulfurization

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[edit] Merge this article with Hydrotreater and Oil desulfurization

Wikipedia now has three articles covering exactly the same subject, namely: Hydrotreater, Hydrodesulfurization and Oil desulfurization. For people in the petroleum refining, petrochemical production and other hydrocarbon processing industries those three names are synonomous. In other words, they mean exactly the same thing. There is no reason why Wikipedia needs three separate articles on the same subject.

The only explanation I can come up with as to how this happened is that the original authors of the three articles failed to make a thorough search as to find out if the subject was already covered in Wikipedia.

I propose that the three articles be merged into a single one and I am tagging all three of them with a "Merge" tag. Any comments? mbeychok 03:16, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Concur with comment: Good idea for the merge. The main problem is that you might end up with a huge article, which tends not to be so readable. One possibility would be to keep Hydrotreater but focus it on the hardware, and let your merged article focus on the chemistry, energetics, and feeds. Good luck.--Smokefoot 05:39, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I like the name "Hydrodesulfurization" best for a merged article because it seems the most specific. In the future, there may be alternate sources of "oil" such as coal liquefaction, tar sands, shale, etc. However, such products may still benefit from hydrodesulfurization. For example, there are "high" sulfur coals (up to several percent), which are undesirable for direct burning. If the price of classical oil goes up, hydrodesulfurization of this liquified coal may present a solution to the high sulfur problem, especially since coal liquefaction involves hydrogenation anyway.
H Padleckas 04:03, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you. "Hydrodesulfurization" would be the best choice. mbeychok 23:46, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Possibly "Hydrodesulfurisation".--Smokefoot 02:31, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Hydrodesulfurisation already redirects to Hydrodesulfurization. H Padleckas 03:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I couldnt find an article on HDN - strange. I guess that topic could be a subsection in HDS.--Smokefoot 03:11, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Smokefoot, there is an article on Hydrogenation chemistry which does mention hydrogenation of nitrogen and unsaturates as well as sulfur. I think the proposed merging could mention them as well. But I also think that the merged article should focus primarily on hydrodesulfurization. When articles try to encompass too much in one article, they tend to get jumbled and badly organized. mbeychok 04:07, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Added a flow diagram image

I just added a flow diagram image of a typical Hydrodesulfurization unit in a petroleum refinery ... to be used when I make the above discussed merger in a few days. I am just waiting to see if we get any further discussion of the proposed merging. - mbeychok 09:33, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

In the diagram, I'm wondering why only part of the gas from the gas separator goes to the amine contactor, instead of all of it. Are there multiple amine units, one shown and one not shown? H Padleckas 07:53, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Henry, the recycle gas must be cleansed of H2S because otherwise it defeats the main purpose of the desulfurizer. The H2S in the recycle gas is removed in an amine contactor ... which gets its lean amine from and sends its rich amine to the refinery's main amine plant. The rest of the gas from the gas separator joins the overhead gas from the stripper which is composed mainly of methane, ethane, H2S and some propane and butane. The total gas is then sent to the refinery main "gas plant" where it joins with many gas streams from the other refinery units (catalytic reformer, fluid catalytic cracker, hydrocracker, alkylation unit, isomerization unit, coker, other HDS units, etc.). The total of those gases are then processed through a series of distillation units for recovery of propane, butane and pentane and the residual lighter gas becomes the refinery fuel gas composed of hydrogen, H2S, methane, ethane and some propane. The H2S in the residual fuel gas is then removed (to comply with environmental regulatory requirements) in a main amine gas treating unit. It is that main unit which furnishes lean amine to the HDS amine contactor and receives rich amine from the HDS amine.

The above is a brief summary, but it should be noted that that some of the refinery gas streams will also contain unsaturates (ethylene, propylene, butylenes and even some butadiene). Therefore, some refineries (but not all) may have two main gas plants ... one for saturates and one for unsaturates. I hope this answers your question. - mbeychok 20:15, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the explanation. H Padleckas 05:44, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Starting on the proposed merger

This is just to let everyone know that I've started on the proposed merger. I've made prints of the three articles which I will use to produce a draft version of the merger ... which will be in my personal sandbox. As soon as I've done that, I will post a link here to my sandbox and invite comments, edits, and discussion of the draft. Then I will finalize and publish it here to replace the three separate article ... each of which will be redirected to the merged version. Does that sound okay? This will take time, so have patience. - mbeychok 22:32, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

There are no deadlines in Wikipedia. I have many other personal affairs to take care of, and my Wikipedia work has to wait often these days. H Padleckas 05:25, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

I am far enough along on the merger to invite all of you to read the draft and to make or offer edits. Please note:

• There is no "See also" section because every pertinent Wiki article I could think of is linked in the text of the draft article.
• The "Miscellaneous uses" sub-section needs some additional uses of hydrogenation ... but please try to brief them down to just a few sentences each, if possible. Also provide references, please.
• The Categories will be assigned after the draft is completely ready ... so don't worry about them now.
• The article still needs an extensive section on the catalysts used in hydrogenation and I will work on that tomorrow (December 1st, for me).
• As we agreed, the title will be "Hydrodesulfurization". The existing Hydrotreater and Oil desulfurization will be redirected to the merged article. The Hydrogenation article will remain as a stand-alone article.

The draft is in my sandbox at User:Mbeychok/MRB's sandbox and it has a Discussion page as well. Regards to all, - mbeychok 08:41, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merged article has replaced the previous version of this article

Hello all:

I have released the merged article and overwrote the existing article here with the merged version. the Hydrotreater and Oil Desulfurization articles are now redirected to this one.

The merger draft is no longer available in my sandbox.

This article is about 90% complete now. It need someone to develop the section on "Catalysts and mechanisms". Please don't try to cover the whole field of catalysis ... just the specific catalysts used in catalytic desulfurization.

The article also need more very brief (just a few sentence each) inputs into the "Miscellaneous uses" section. Thanks to all, - mbeychok 00:20, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Catalyst and mechanisms

Smokefoot, thanks very much for the absolutely superb job you did on the "Catalysts and mechanisms" section. Just one point ... I think I will change the word "cartoon" to "diagram" for the image that you included. Once again, thanks. - mbeychok 18:14, 3 December 2006 (UTC)