Talk:Hurufism

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[edit] Lettrism

What distinguishes Hurifizm from other sufis and mystics is the centrality of the letter form in the hurufi system - NOT the centrality of Naimi, Nasimi or any geographical location. As such it is self evident that the systems of Hurufizm and Lettrism are one - this needs no source, it is simply a matter of translation from English to Arabic

I'm sorry, but claiming some sort of connection between a Sufi order and an obscure modern-art movement needs more evidence than just the fact that "Hurufism" translates to "Lettrism." Did you even look at the Lettrism page to see what you were referring to? Also, please sign your comments. Mjk2357 19:38, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

i did look, and unlike you i also engaged!! - there really isn't much difference between the 'obscure modern-art movement' that is basically a small group of young poets and the 'sufi order' which is basically a small group of young poets! 62.25.106.209 15:01, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Provide a reference. I see a huge difference between any sort of 20th-century French art movement and Sufi mystics. How did one influence the other? For example, were some of the French Lettrists interested in Sufism? Did some Sufis begin making modern art? Otherwise, all you have is a coincidence of translation. Mjk2357 15:05, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

lol! even for people who declared themselves to be God it is just not on to practice modern art in a pre-modern era! as for sufi lettrists, try Mohamed Dahou, Cheik Ben Dhine or Ait Diafer. In any case I am not arguing for a historical link but a literal one! 62.25.106.209 15:14, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

It is not my responsibility to research sources for your additions. As long as you keep adding this rather outlandish assertion without sources people (not just me) will keep deleting it, so stop wasting your time. Mjk2357 16:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The influence of Sabbatainism (Sabbatai Zevi) and Hurufizm (Ali Al-Allah) on Bektashism

You can get some references by googling Sabbatai Bektashi, eg http://www.kheper.net/topics/Kabbalah/Zevi_and_Bektashi.htm http://www.donmeh-west.com/re-evaluation.shtml http://www.sunnirazvi.org/forum/read.php?f=15&i=3&t=3 Although soemone is removing the links from the Bektashi page for some reason... I think they are also removing links to Hurufizm. There are ongoing debates about whether Hurufizm is an Islamic or pagan or atheist discipline and so I think soem Bektashia maybe eager to distance Bektashism from either Sabbatainism or Hurufizm. Paki.tv 23:40, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks I will check the link

There are two types of Bektashiyya, actual Sufi tarikat that have tekkes in Albania and the like, if I am not mistaken. They may have grown more mainstream. But you also have Alevis who are Heterodox Shias and are more disorganized. I do not know exactly how these groups are related. I have never heard for Sabbatianism influence on Bektashism, it was in 17th century and Bektashis have formed in 15th... I doubt that, but may be.

I have added comments on my talk page to you with regards to Fazlullah. His actual name is Naimi and Fazlullah is his pseudonym. He never used name Hurufi for himself Abdulnr 02:11, 6 February 2006 (UTC)