Talk:House of Orange-Nassau

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The information given in the fourth paragraph about William III "causing" the glorious revolution is completely incorrect. He in no way caused Parliament and other actors to force the abdication of James II, which has much more to do with the legacy of the Civil War than the Dutch royal house.

Also, the article seems to indicate that it was the personal actions of William that led to a more constitutional monarchy, whereas in reality he objected to much of the more progressive articles of the Bill of Rights before he accepted the Crown.

Thirdly, his main claim to 'legitimacy' on the English throne was though his wife, Mary Stuart, whom he technically ruled with as an equal. Quee1797 19:42, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Anne

Anne was not House of Orange, she was a Stuart. -- Zoe

You're absolutely right; I must have screwed up List of British monarchs. Jeez, that things going to look even more complicated! — Toby 00:19 Aug 15, 2002 (PDT)

The article is wrong in more aspects. William of Orange (or William the Silent) was a son of the Count of Nassau (in current Germany). At young age, he inherited the title Prince of Orange when his uncle died. So while the "House of Orange" is the common title for the Dutch royal family, it is not the House of Orange that acquired Nassau. I'll change this in the text. Jeronimo

Hmmm, this gets more complicated, since there's also an article Orange-Nassau about this and a big article at Dutch monarchy. I think it would be best to just redirect this and the Orange-Nassau page to there, but I'm not sure. Any other suggestions? Jeronimo

I say that it should all go to House of Orange-Nassau and be combined. Zoe and Jeronimo? — Toby 00:45 Aug 15, 2002 (PDT)

Actually, no. The Dutch monarchy hasn't always been the House of Orange-Nassau (the Kingdom of Holland had Napoleon's brother as the king), while the House of Orange-Nassau hasn't always been the Dutch monarchs. However, the two articles could probably borrow a lot from each other. I volunteer to help rewriting them. Jeronimo

OK, I'm with you then. There could still be an article on the "House of Orange" sometime, about the French principality of course... But that can be dealt with when somebody actually wants to write it. I'll make the redirect and move right away. Jeronimo

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that Dutch monarchy would go there! I thought that that went without saying, but I see that I wasn't clear. I meant the others, the ones with "Orange" in the title, no more. — Toby 01:15 Aug 15, 2002 (PDT)

Contents

[edit] Wrong

As A Member Of the Oosterbaan Family (The True Heirs to the throne of Orange born to King William III by Elizabeth Villers but ousted by the villanous John Willaim Friso and his family of thiefs from which we have been in hiding from to this very day) I am appaled that History dose not recognize our legitamate claim nor Wikipedia!Winn3317 00:48, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Descendents of Edward IV and Henry VII

What sort of social rank would one have to bear in their family, in order to be a descendent of either?

How far up the totem pole, would you say?

This is intended to have broad answers and based on gradients of time and population, not going into specifics about exact descendents. About how common is their descent in the English or British genepool today?

I've noticed that American Presidents don't descend from either king, but the most common recent royal ancestor shared by many of us is Edward III. How common is it for anybody in the English or British genepool, to have a Protestant royal ancestor?

There is a general cutoff, isn't there?

Is it because of fratricide in the Wars of the Roses, the Tudors' "new men", or the Union of the Crowns, or the parliamentary union under Queen Anne (I can't think of any non-royal family descent from the Hanoverians within the UK)?

I'm thinking that there is a big difference between Plantagenet and Tudor descents, that the commons in all likelihood have the former and the latter is held by the lords. (just generally speaking) Then again, Tudor descent in the Welsh must be higher in general. I am further curious about pre-Royal Tudor blood in Anglo-British people today, since the status and/or concept of Welsh royalty/nobility is rather hazy in my mind. I found the Blevins aka Ap Bleddyn family of Powys in my ancestry, but have no real idea on what to make of it--or any other Welsh "native aristocracy". I might be able to find Stewart descent somewhere, from way back when. What percentage of Hanoverian background do you think that German colonists had in America?

On the British side, I have to go as far back as Welf himself...but any recent genetic relationship with the Hanoverians or the counts of Nassau are completely obscure. How does one research those other colonial people, such as the Hessians?

UK genealogy is relatively easy when focusing on English (and French) ancestries. What would a "national person" of Jerusalem (or Antioch, for example) in Crusader times be known as?

We say "American" for those Founders, but was there such a nationality-term for the Crusaders in their own domains?

I guess the term is supposed to be Levantine/Outremer, or "Crusader" as our national heritage says "Colonist"...

IP Address 12:08, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't this section maybe try to show some links between Orange's use in Holland/The Netherlands, and this house? I've no idea if the two are related.

[edit] Sir Francis Drake?

I am intrigued by the following paragraph:

"William's oldest son, Philip William (1552-1622), had been captured and imprisoned by King Philip II of Spain (in 1582), and tried to claim his right to the throne in 1596, after his release from prison and after the presumed death of Sir Francis Drake, which was the fictitious name of William "the silent" of Orange. However, John Maurits Henry, was more powerful and had the approval of his father, who was still alive and hiding from Spanish assassins in Virginia."

I suspect that whoever included this (bizarre) passage has been reading too much mystery novels. In fact, this particular conspiracy theory has never before reached me in any form whatsoever. Can someone trace its origin, remove it, and replace it with some correct information regarding the position of Philip William's inheritance after his father's death?

[edit] Colour orange

Is it just in English that the link between the house and the colour is made ? -- Beardo 09:39, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Have you seen this picture of Queen's Day? -- Eugène van der Pijll 10:57, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
But what is the word for the colour orange in Dutch ? Is it linked to the name of the royal house ? -- Beardo 00:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
The word is oranje and the name of the House is in Dutch Oranje. The word for the fruit is however sinaasappel.--MWAK 08:25, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
Ok, I have found something totally different to the orange discussion that may help with your questions - see my section on carrots and the house of orange and see the link http://www.carrotmuseum.co.uk/history.html
The carrot section in my opinion does not belong in the article. It's more about the history of the carrot than it is about the history of the house of orange-nassau. If more people agree it should be removed. Gemertp 14:14, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


I agree with Gemertp (above). As a Dutchman I have never heard of the carrot to be considered adopted as the Royal vegetable. My guess, (and I have not read the carrot article) is that some institution of carrot-enthusiasts requested so at one point in history. And the royal family did not decline. There is not much, I believe, they ever wóúld decline. Royal reggae band? Sure. Why not.
For those people unfamiliar with the relationship between the Dutch nation and it's royal family, they are popular and loved. The Dutch people consider it to be part of their national identity. I mention this to try to give an idea of a possible motive behind the carrot-enthusiasts.
Maybe it was just a marketing trick.
New pleasant attention for carrots.
Yay for the Dutch carrot industry.
Mind the difference with the role the British royal family has. They are not illustrative for the Dutch. With the exception of some recent incidents, the Dutch royal house is not, as in The UK, non-stop wildly bombarded by sensational tabloid magazine nonsense. It happens, but certainly milder. Luckily.
There is no verified knowledge in my above paragraphs. Nothing I can support with references. Just my meager impressions as a Dutchman. :::Tristan Laurillard (talk) 07:52, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Founding year

The founding year of the House of Orange is 1544, not 1815. The founder is William of Orange. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.221.201.26 (talk) 12:45, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] House of Orange / House of Orange-Nassau

Shouldn't these two be split up? [Prince_of_Orange] talks about both, and has links to both in a single sentence, but they redirect to the same page. Shouldn't we at least describe the difference between the two? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Royalty Parsing Project (talk • contribs) 08:59, 21 December 2007 (UTC)