Talk:History of the Jews under Muslim rule
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The section I have marked as NPOV is quite biased and presents a lot of info (esp. regarding Jewish tribes of Medina) out of context.Bless sins 23:25, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
- this section also needs to reference where it is getting its info from.Bless sins 15:08, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
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[edit] What's the problem?
I'm not sure what point-of-view problem "Bless Sins" finds in this section. If he outlines it specifically I'm happy to make some editions. As for sources, I note that its Albert Hourani (the Great Arab historian) as well as the Cambridge History of Islam. I figure I'm on pretty solid historical ground. But, I'm willing to be wrong... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Varangian (talk • contribs) 21:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC).
[edit] PS
Oh, and I used Bernard Lewis as an additional source. Note the "history" page.
[edit] NPOV
This article has a very strong anti-religious POV. This must be fixed. 203.158.42.118 10:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Plus the article is full of nonsense: Such as "prohibitions against proselytizing and marrying Muslim women" being called a mistreatment. With Jewry being completely religious at that point of time such a statement shows a misleading liberal anti-religious POV. The mistreatment of the Gaonim would on the other hand a more accurate statement. 203.206.248.147 11:01, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Anti Religious?
The comment (written not by me) in the introduction on the nature of Dhimmi status was indeed a bit silly--and I have fixed this. But my question is this: in the section of Jews in the Arabian peninsula, where is the "anti-religious bias". Very easy to criticise, dear interlocutor, but you must either provide a citation of what you think is wrong, or do it your self. I cannot read your mind. If you wish to criticise, please at least be constructive.
Varangian 22:57, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] NPOV
Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia's own guidelines on NPOV disputes:
"If you come across an article whose content does not seem to be consistent with Wikipedia's NPOV policy, use one of the tags below to mark the article's main page. Then, on the article's talk page, make a new section entitled "NPOV dispute [- followed by a section's name if you're challenging just a particular section of the article and not the article as a whole]". Then, under this new section, clearly and exactly explain which part of the article does not seem to have a NPOV and why. Make some suggestions as to how one can improve the article. Be active and bold in improving the article."
So, please help me out with the suggestions. Perhaps (and I note that I am only responsible for the Arabian Peninsula section) I am missing something--I am willing to be put right. But I need to know what you perceive as anti-religious.
Varangian 23:04, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] So-called fixes
Hi,
I've added a bunch of references that I hope suit you "Bless Sins". I'm having trouble with embedding the references but I'm sure someone will help me with that. I have also removed the NPOV marker not to start a flame war, but because I have added the citations you suggested, and because you have not yet indicated what specific NPOV faults there might be.
Cheers,
Varangian 16:43, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Eureka...
Okay, references in properly. Sorry about all that. Varangian 16:52, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Moved page
The previous name can be misinterperted to mean that Muslims always owed these lands which will lead to pov issues. Its better to strictly phrase it as under Muslim rule, because it went back and forth throughout history (Iran wasn't always Muslim, neither was Turkey).
Guy Montag 03:45, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Agree with the Change
I agree completely with the renaming of the page. It makes more sense in terms of thematic organisation. Varangian 11:06, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
- I support it as well. ←Humus sapiens ну? 11:14, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Removed the following ...
Several decades ago, popular Moroccan society itself was deeply anti-Semitic; whether it still is and if so to what degree is not known. This is language hardly suitable for an encyclopaedia article, especially when there are no polls or other reliable sources to substantiate this daring claim. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.194.104.78 (talk) 19:26, 27 February 2007 (UTC).
[edit] OR from lead
As such, they were entitled to limited rights, tolerance, and protection, on the condition they pay a special poll tax (the "jizya"), which exempted them from military service, and also from payment of the Zakat alms tax required of Muslims. As dhimmi, Jews were typically subjected to several restrictions and mistreatments, the application and severity of which varied by time and place. Conversely, they sometimes attained high positions in government, notably as viziers and physicians. Jewish communities, like Christian ones, were typically constituted as semi-autonomous entities managed by their own laws and leadership, who carried the responsibility for the community towards the Muslim rulers. The treatment of Jews in Muslim lands was generally better than that in Europe. As a result, many Jews sought refuge in Muslim ruled Middle East and North Africa (Maghreb) from persecution in Europe.
I am removing the following because it is original research, and selective POV forking from the Dhimmi article. This article is about history (grantit it needs expansion), not necessarily the treatment of muslims under the system of dhimmi. If the reader is intrested in how jews were treated there is an entire article that covers this content, and that is the dhimmi article. No need to fill the lead with this repeated POV forking from that article.--SefringleTalk 06:17, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Whither the Arab Jew?
There was a section here on Jews in the Arabian peninsula that has been moved to the page titled "Arab Jews", which is fine but there ought to be a link to it.
Also, the time lines given in this article are bumff. How is the 19th century "Pre-Modern"? This is, in all definitions of the historical profession, "Modern", with "early modern" being from 17th to 18th c. And why does it only start in the 1600 hundreds when Jews lived under Muslim rule from the 6th century onwards? Varangian —Preceding comment was added at 11:48, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
