Talk:History of the Jews in Spain

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[edit] Public domain

Um, the Jewish Encyclopedia is public domain. Read the first sentence of the homepage[1]. I just started working on the article, attribution would have been coming soon in any case. Please remove copyright notice. --Goodoldpolonius2 23:16, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

24.125.22.187 04:38, 27 December 2005 (UTC)I understand the source affects the viewpoint of this article. However, it is clearly biased against Christians in general and Spanish Catholics in specific. Also, the writing is awkward in several sections and there are allegations without reference support. These objections should be noted by readers of this article, which is nonetheless informative in its content. 24.125.22.187 04:38, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

This article has a lot of references, but it isn't always clear what facts come from what sources. Even if information is reworded, we need to know where that info originated. CClio333 (talk) 21:18, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] From Francisco Franco

From Talk:Francisco Franco#Jews:

I can't provide exact numbers but the last i heard (from a professor at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem at a conference at my elder daughter's highschool early this winter) it was on the order of tens of thousands. The line is also in factual error. Most of the jews saved with a spanish passport were East European jews, not french, and very few indeed even travelled to Spain. What Franco really did, was twofold. He let his diplomatic service make use of a Primo de Rivera's law, which granted spanish cityzenship to all sepharaditic jews (i'll search for it), and succesfully moved the Germans to recognize the passports thus issued. Many diplomats, with tacit consent of Madrid, extended this -mainly after 1943- to all jews. The case of the spanish consuls at Budapest (who is said to have issued IIRC at least 6000 such passes) and Viena are well publisized.
The same law was used at least once more: after 1967, when moroccan jews were expelled after the "six day's war"
It's possible that the overland route (thru Spain into Portugal and elsewhere) was used also by many, but, at least until 1942, it was not considered "safe", nor where uniform policies applied.
Franco's regime attitude regarding the jews is at first approach inconsistent. Propaganda never gave up an antisemitic stance, and Franco (alone in West Europa) never recognized Israel and held and open pro-arab attitude; but on the other side, seems to have been sincere in his dissaproval of Nazi policy, and for the first time since 1492, during Franco's time a small jewish community could flourish again in Spain with no remarkable difficulties.--Wllacer 09:43, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
A couple of references to my former comment. The legal prextext for issuing spanish passports to sefaraditic jews is a decree of December, 20 1924[2]. A Decreto ley from December, 29 1948[3] was used to save the jewish egyptian colony after the first israely-arab war. My source about moroccan jews are personal communication from some of them. For a good first approach to the spanish charge d'affairs in Budapest see [4]
The basic bibliographical reference to the behaviour of Franco's regime towards Jews during WWII is Federico Ysart's España y los judíos en la Segunda Guerra. Mundial (Barcelona, 1973) ISBN 84-7235-083-5. But as the publisher is long out of business it should be hard to find. AFAIK Shlomo Ben Ami has also published some works which incidentally touch this matter--Wllacer 23:53, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
On the other hand, I don't like that this fragment of text is referenced by a link to vigent spanish civil law. It's not acurate, nor correct. Yes, spanish law allow a simplified procedure to obtain citizenship latin-american, guinean, iberian and sephardim people, but this law, I'm pretty sure, supersedes older ones.
Another interesting point is the rumor, or fact, that in a recent balkan war, refugees of sephardic origin obtained spanish citenship by an special royal decree, very similar that Franco's "decreto ley" linked by parent message. Does it an interesting aditional data to this page?--Patillotes (talk) 14:20, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation

Some disambiguation needs to be done with the links, particularly with the links to the various kings and emperors. If I get a chance in the next couple of days, I'll take a shot at it. ArglebargleIV 03:02, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] names of villages

It's the first time I write in wikipedia, so sorry if this is not adequate. I saw the name "Alcalá de Guadeira" and I dont know if that was the name in the past, but nowadays it is "Alcalá de Guadaira", and there is already a small article about it.

Fregenal must be Fregenal de la Sierra, but there is no article yet in English.

Albunea 14:38, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Subsections for Moorish Spain

I broke up this section into three subsections, The Moorish Conquest, The Caliphate of Cordoba, and The Taifas, without any change to the body of the text. My goal was just to create smaller chunks for easier editing in the future. The existing structure of the text seemed to suggest these three parts.

Anybody better acquainted with the page and topic than I am, please revise the partition and the subsection titles as necessary.

213.47.127.75 03:21, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] == A strange Bibel-reference ==

I just swung by and the phraze

"...Leviticus 29.2 makes reference to the return of the Diaspora from Spain by 165"

caught my eye. I am not sure what is intended here, since - to my knowledge - Leviticus was written with some probability between the year 922 BCE (the death of Salomo and the breaking of the one Kingdom) and mid fifth-century (probably not after the exile ended with Kyros conquering of Babylon in 539). That the authors of Leviticus would mention second century Spain seem sort of strange, not to mention - Leviticus only has 27 chapters...

Bodhisattva7 00:26, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Irrelevant

Hello, I know nothing about History of the Jews in Spain, but I just wanna say that someone wrote "hiii=]" at the end of the second paragraph under Caliphate of Cordoba —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.31.68.43 (talk) 16:59, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] the jews speak ladino

raquel samper director community jewish murcia less than 2 percent of jews in spain today even understand ladino. We speak castellano. Not hebrew or latin just castellano.We study hebrew as israel is our point of origin but we dont speak it. . But to say jews in spain speak(present tense) ladino is absurd!! do the koplowitz sisters know ladino? fernando shwartz? not even the rabbi in madrid knows ladino. Most dont know hebrew except for 14 israelis now permanently living in murcia Starbucks cafe owners. the comunidadjudia jewish community in murcia is 463 and we are castellano speaking.We here are jews from spain ,decendents of jews here. We dont know ladino. Its folkloric and a few know it like you know latin. i guess the tourist jews will come here to meet the ol world jews and wont they be surprised to see our internet fiberoptic .I guess one might say we SPOLE ladino or it was the spoken language. btw we speak very good English as well. Our kids go to israel to learn english , —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.38.17.233 (talk) 22:35, 3 March 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Crypto-Judaism

I don't find any allusions to crypto-judaism, id est, the Jewish forced conversos who kept their tradition secretly inside Spain during the 17th and 18th centuries; they were publicly Christians, but in the secret of their homes and hearts, they retained their Jewish cultural and religious identity. Perhaps Ms.Samper could add something interesting about this matter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.67.174.130 (talk) 12:54, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] expelled converted

no mention here to the third option;killing of jews. Jews who didnt leave or convert were killed by the soldiers. They were not allowed to be killed by neighbors but the soldiers picked them up and they disappeared. How many? word of mouth goes that it was in the thousands as many too old to leave too stubborn to convert were killed. spain today is very different and the j community is 62000 as of 2008. The king of spain in youtube quotes that jews have always been and are a part of spain,not nostalgia.I recall in 1991 in the peace conference in madrid yitzak shamir spoke of the killing of jews 5 centuries ago in spain. spain today is modern and there are 62000 jews here growing intergrating and yet maintaining identity as spanish jews as opposed to spanish catholics . raquel samper comunidad judia murcia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Murcia fluent (talk • contribs) 08:05, 22 May 2008 (UTC)