Talk:Hispanic American wars of independence

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I don't know much about this....I can track down stuff, but really we need someone who knows this history better than I. Any volunteers? :-) Jwrosenzweig 20:45, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Many errors likely persist, by the way -- mostly I preserved the factual assertions of the user who created the article, even though I find some of them suspect, and some are clearly badly explained. Hack and slash as much as you need to in order to fix it. Jwrosenzweig 20:48, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Name

I think the name of this page is much too ambiguous. Besides, it would make more sense to speak of the Latin American Wars of Independence, as Central American and Caribean (Haitit) colonies fought for their independence in the period 1808-1826 as well. And, while we are at it, other sources speak of the Wars of Liberation... Renke 12:10, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Bolivar-San Martín

San Martín is also known as "El Libertador", and both campaigns were enormous; I think its some form of POV to talk of BOLIVAR and refer to San Martín as someone active in the south.


The distinct Northern and Southern theatres of campaign mean that I vote against merging this page into "Bolivar's War". Joffan 15:34, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I vote NO

Exactly, San Martín and Bolívar was equals in contribution to the Independence of South American Countries, San Martín in the South and Bolívar in the North. This article is correct as it is.

[edit] Merge

Bolivar's War article should be merged into this article. No sense to have 2 articles; this one is more comprehensive. Thanks Hmains 03:05, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

I would recommend a merge into South American wars of independence. Both articles would benefit from some substantial improvements, but the title of this article better represents the scope of that time period and the large number of participants (from american and european countries). Bolívar's campaigns are definitely worth an article on their own merit, but he was certainly not the only noteworthy participant in those events.

I for one, am going to put my fingers with my vote and begin to improve this article. Perhaps with the help of some additional volunteers, we could make this one a bit more comprehensive, and the clear winner in the battle to subjugate Bolívar's War into this article. :-p Srice13 20:51, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed: use of the term "nativism"

I just read this article for the first time and was frankly stunned to see the word "nativism" in the intro being used in a truly bizarre context. Surely there isn't another whole meaning for the word, separate & distinct from its standard usage? The article on nativism certainly gives no suggestion of such a thing.

I very strongly suspect that the word was inserted as an act of vandalism - but I couldn't deduce what the orginal word may have been (perhaps "nationalism"??), and I just don't have time to go through the entire edit history, one by one, hoping to find out what happened. So it would be really nice if someone who's familiar with the history of the article would look into this and make whatever correction is called for. Cgingold 15:46, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No for Merging

The subject of South Americans war of independece is composed of diferent campaings,people,countries,idelogies so it is unfair to just tagged it all like the same.The American Revolutionary War has around 55 kilobytes while independence of latin america(a much more bigger area that the USA of XVIII century and less cohesive movement) is compossed of mainly stubs and unreferenced articles.Rather than merging it should be expanded the different articles about each country independence.--Andres rojas22 03:48, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] YES FOR MERGING

This article is entirely and completely useless and it is embarrasing that it even exists in Wikipedia, which is more often than not a very reliable and respectable source of true and clear information. Respectfully, I think Andres rojas22 is wrong in the reasons he provides against the merging of the articles. None of the reasons he states(the ideological differences between San Martín and Bolívar, the small size of the original Independence War article, and the different components of the Wars of Independence) are at all valid.

The point is that the term "Bolivar's War" makes the different aspects, theatres and components of the South American Wars of Independence possessive to Simón Bolívar alone. It is, I think, unnecessary to remind any person who has even the most cursory knowledge of Latin American History, that Simón Bolívar was not the only leader in this movement, indeed he wasn't even the original one. In Venezuela that title is held by Manuel Gual, Pedro España or Francisco de Miranda who all led the calls for independence before Bolívar was anywhere in the political landscape. Indeed, Simón Bolívar wasn't even one of the signatories of the Act of Independence of July 5. He was the most important leader of the posterior conflicts which achieved independence but not the creator of something called "Bolívar's War".

Further, the name is insulting to people like José Félix Ribas, Antonio José de Sucre, Francisco de Miranda, José Antonio Páez, Santiago Mariño, Francisco Rodriguez del Toro and many, many others who provided leadership and sometimes gave their lives to fight for the independence of the Viceroyalties of New Granada (present day Colombia, Venezuela and Ecuador) and Perú (Bolivia and Perú), which were the countries in which the fight led by Bolívar took place.

I would suggest first merging this article with the South American Wars of Independence article, and then, if needed, taking the relevant information on each country (again, Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuardor, Perú and Bolivia) to each country's article on its own War of Independence. Please stop insulting the memory of the very many men and women who died and fought for independence by allocating every and all credit to a single, albeit enormously important, man. It is not only morally wrong, but enormously historically and informationally erroneous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Agammemnon (talk • contribs)

I'm very aware that Bolivar din't liberate these countries by himself and who those men were,and i dont think it's insulting at all the term Bolivar's war,but for a better explanation i'll do a brief recounting of the independance of Northern South America:the first calls for revolution were heard in america in the end of the XVIII century(Jose Leonardo Chirinos in Venezuela,comuneros uprising in New Granada,Túpac Amaru revolt in Perú..)but they were succesfully represed by the crown becaused they usually lacked the suport of the mantuanos who feared a social revolution like happened in Haiti.When the french invaded Spain the mantuanos saw an oportunity to gain political independence(i point the fact that the mantuanos wanted a political independence so they could maintain their power and the status quo,but were against a social change for the same reason)this movements wich saw the independence declarations in the different countries wass soon also in a big crisis because many people of the lower class saw whit suspicion the mantuanos plans and they dint support them or even join the royalist army to figth the insurrection,probably the most brutal example wass Jose Tomas Boves in Venezuela who making use of the hatred of the lower classes for the mantuanos,succesfully disbanded the first venezuelan republic.Soon the independence movements under the mantuanos fell short of energy(some aristocrats pledged the king for amnesty,some even joined the royalist) the colonial administration wass restablished in Quito and Perú,leaving just in New Granada and Venezuela small bands fighting whit little succes,pluss the divisions of the patriotic lines and the expedition of Morillo almost ended the patriot's cause.
It is in this context,the failure of the separetaly indepence move that Bolivar makes his crucial move and is the justification for the name Bolivar's war.Bolivar's saw the futility of the regional divisions and thaugh that to succed it would be necesary to unite the independance movement's,give it a continental esence.He invaded New Granada(this is way after the campaña admirable)and in a series of battles the venezuelan-grenadin forces defeated the spanish.After the stablishment of the Great Colombia,the Colombian army continued campaining in Venezuela,Quito and Perú therefore actually liberating these republics.
Therefore,you see, the name Bolivar's wars does not mean that Bolivar liberated this countries alone but refers to the time when under Bolivars direction(remember that he wass the only president of the Great Colombia,just being replaced by Santander his vicepresident when he campaigned)the movements of northern south america efectivly joined forces in a continental and consolidated movement and broke whit the situation of aislation and local war that didnt brought results--Andres rojas22 19:51, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] When did this happen?

In spring 1820, Bolívar's republican forces took....

When did this happen? Equatorial countries have tropical seasons, not temperate-zone seasons, so this seasonal reference is inappropriate here. If possible, substitute this with a date or a month. --B.d.mills 07:22, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Recent Edits

I reorganized the article to make it more symmetrical, and removed information that I felt was unnecessary to include here (it makes no sense to include biographies of the major leaders of the war, when all you have to do is click on the links of their names to get one that's as in-depth as is necessary). The article still needs more information though, specifically a brief summary of each of the major campaigns in southern South America. And of course, it needs citations.

I might still add a military conflict box so links to the articles about all the various leaders can be mentioned at least somewhere on the page. However, since this is a summary of a collection of wars, rather than an article about a single war itself, I'm not sure that it's really appropriate.--Antodav2007 (talk) 02:12, 19 November 2007 (UTC)