Template talk:Hillary Rodham Clinton

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This template was considered for deletion on 2007 December 23. The result of the discussion was to keep and clean up.

Please remember images DO NOT belong on talk pages.
If it is necessary, please link to the image instead.
DiligentTerrier • talk |sign here 20:50, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Expanded template

I have expanded this template to look like real life and not like a pale nothing about nothing pro-Hillary PR piece. Everyone knows that Bill Clinton is her "spouse" and Chelsea is her "daughter" and that the people whose names end with "Rodham" belong to her immediate family, who else? (How dumb can anyone get, and what a total waste that is to say so, and makes everyone look stupid, duh, like, oh yeah, her puddy cat was Socks.) Could we discuss what anyone thinks is "not relevant" to the expanded template as every item in it is directly relevant to HRC and it is NPOV. All the articles in this expanded template are about HRC and she is central to all of them. There is no Wikipedia "law" that says that templates cannot be expanded and improved, something that happens all the time on Wikipedia (unless of course, some people here are working for Hillary, which I hope is not true.) Wikipedia is here for NPOV work only. It is not for Hillary-bashing nor is it here to work for her election as in Wikipedia is not hillaryclinton.com (See WP:NOT#ADVERTISING and WP:NOT#WEBSPACE and more.) Thanks, IZAK (talk) 11:49, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

OK, you don't like Hillary, we get it, no need for the cartoon characters. The real issue here is, should this be a short nav template that just points to the most immediately relevant articles about HRC that complement the main article, or should this be a long nav template that points to every article that has any connection with HRC. If the latter, we have this version which is slanted anti-HRC (but you missed at least five articles that would make her look even worse, keep trying IZAK!), or we have this version from last month which was slanted pro-HRC. Combine the two, and we'd have one really big nav template. Me, I supported junking the template in the AfD, just to avoid this kind of tussle. Wasted Time R (talk) 13:48, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi Wasted Time R: Your feedback is appreciated. I just couldn't resist having Tweety Bird here when I saw that the template in its simplistic form is just plain dumb. I mean, does anyone really need to be told that Bill Clinton is her "spouse"? I am looking at this as a historian would, trying to "navigate" the whole picture of her 60 year old life. I actually looked at almost every article, so I don't know why you think I missed anything. What's in the template is known to the slightly more academic observer of the Clintons, whether you hate or love 'em, these are the important things, they are factually, truthfully and historically 100% accurate. If there is any hearsay of unsubstantiated slander, please feel free to cut it out, I will suppor you on that, but not when you have fairly good articles on Wikipedia that cover the entire gamut of Hillary's professional and political life. She is a truly very important person, and she has withstood the tests in her political life so it actually makes her look stronger and not weaker or diminished. I am not one-dimensional, and fortunataly neither does Wikipedia subscribe to one-dimensional views, in fact that is why we have WP:NPOV that requires that all views be shared and reflected, and not that there be " 'No' Points of View." I tried my best to enhance the contents of this template and created Category:Images of Hillary Rodham Clinton to gather up all the images of HRC (as well as Category:Images of Bill Clinton) to enhance this template. I added the articles about her senate victories and her work in congress, as that should be in such a template for a sitting US senator as she is. So regardless of my personal views, as editors we should strive to present the total picture of this very complex character and not reduce her to a caricature. Thanks, IZAK (talk) 09:28, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

P.S. The old version of the template you point out from last month is no good because it links to all sorts of articles and topics about organizations and efforts where often the articles do not really mention her name. The link to "First Ladies of Arkansas" was a redirect to the governors' page. Anyhow, my version is not about throwing in everything but the kitchen sink, because the articles in this present template follow a chronological order and have HRC pretty much at their center and make prominent mention of her and her activities, pro and con, but on balance it's an accurate depiction of her. Feel free to add your views, but merely to flippantly state that you "don't care" will not do, because you have to care about the subject to sit in judgment of its accuracy, validity and functionality. Thanks, IZAK (talk) 09:39, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

OK, I've gone through and added links to accomplishments from Arkansas and FL whose articles that do prominently mention her; I agree that the old template was bloated with ones that didn't. The one exception in my adds is SCHIP; it should mention her but doesn't, I have made a note to work on that article. In cases where I've yanked things that you added, my edit comments give the reason. Wasted Time R (talk) 05:17, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

SCHIP mentions her right at the begining. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.37.116.3 (talk) 18:16, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, because I added her involvement to that article subsequent to my above comment. Wasted Time R (talk) 22:17, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations to Wasted Time R! You have done a great job improving and upgrading this template. This is now a good NPOV and scholarly reflection. Thanks for your efforts. IZAK (talk) 03:45, 22 January 2008 (UTC)