Talk:Herbal tea

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Re: recent edit -- What about non-black tea? Green/oolong/white tea is "real" tea in every sense, as are blends such as "Earl Green" (bergamot and green tea). // Utilitaritron

Earl Gray is bergamot and *black* tea, no?

I just clarified that. // Utilitaritron

im korean, and i think the term for barley tea is bolicha, not holicha

Contents

[edit] Bissap/hibiscus

I believe the bissap and hibiscus are the same species. Badagnani 05:02, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rename Page

This article already emphasises the fact that anything containing tea leaves is not a tisane, that tisanes are not true teas. But no one wants to see scare-quotes in a heading i.e. Herbal "Tea", so let's make Tisane the primary name, leaving Herbal Tea as a redirect.

If there's no objections I'll just go ahead. Nick 17:00, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Is tisane a commonly used term? I've never heard it before now, I've only heard the terms "herbal tea" and less commonly, "infusion".--RLent 17:44, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
It's quite commonly used in the tea communities to denote any plant material or aquaous plant infusions that are not created from the leaves and flushes of Camellia sinensis. Sjschen 02:22, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology

Can someone possibly add the etymology of the word "tisane"? Because I've never heard of it before, not even in tea catalogs, advertisements, etc. Calicore 16:16, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

From OED:

F. tisane (14th c. tizanne, 16th c. ptisane) = Pr. tisana, tipsana, Sp. and It. tisana, ad. L. ptisana (also in med.L. tipsana), a. Gr. πτισάνη peeled or pearl barley, also a drink made from this, f. πτισσειν to peel, to winnow, to crush or bray as in a mortar.
1398 TREVISA Barth. De P.R. XVII. cxv. (Bodl. MS.), Of barlich ischeled and isode in water is a medicinable drinke ymade at phisicians clepen Thisan. c1400 Lanfranc's Cirurg. 139 In e v. day he took ikke tizanne [v.r. tysan]. c1440 Promp. Parv. 494/2 Tysane, drynke, ptisana. 1567 TURBERV. Epitaphs, etc. 97b, They will refuse the Tysants taste. 1596 DANETT tr. Comines (1614) 15 A little of the tysan the Earle had drunke of. 1709 MRS. MANLEY Secret Mem. I. 126 He could not confine himself to Wine and Water, or Tissanes. 1854 BADHAM Halieut. 119 Paul of Ægina advises that the patient quaff a light tisane.

It's not clear when it ceased to mean specifically the barley drink and became an infusion of any herb but the word has definitely been around for a long time.

I'm not surprised that you haven't seen it in catalogues. Most commercial sources just add the word "tea" to the end of whatever it is, whether it contains real tea leaves or not. Nick 17:30, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

most people aren't familiar with the term "Tisane".... Is it so much more important to be correct than to be practical and accesible Blueaster 04:12, 8 October 2006 (UTC)?

Why not be both correct and accessible? That's the beauty of redirects, they send people using colloquialisms to the correct pages. Things are perfect the way they are, the page is at its most accurate name, redirects are sending people there and 'herbal "tea"' is in bold in the top line, so people know that they're in the right place. (I think all the redirects are working fine.) I don't see what you could possibly want to change. Nick 22:09, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
The problem is that the most commonly used name is supposed to be used as the article name, which is why we have Dido (singer) instead of the old article name Dido Armstrong. Since most people have never heard the word tisane, but almost everyone is familiar with herbal teas, the common name is not being used. Thanks.   — Lee J Haywood 19:41, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
This is explained clearly by Wikipedia:Naming_conventions.   — Lee J Haywood 20:18, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New infusion category

What is people's opinion if we create an infusion category and maybe an extract category. I hate calling tisane tea :) --Kupirijo 14:19, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm all for it, but you have to changing the "herbal tea" category name into just "tisane" and making this page its main article. Sjschen 02:19, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Title

See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names). I'm sure that the vast majority of English speakers have never heard of a tisane (my spell-checker doesn't even recognize it), but everyone knows what an herbal tea is. That is simply the most common, most generally understood name for it. Most authoritative dictionaries define tea as an infusion of other herbs in addition to the usual meaning C. sinensis infusion, such as the American Heritage here. This dictionary isn't for "specialists," it is for general knowledge, and articles should be written and titled in a general way. Therefore this is a proposal for a page move to Herbal tea (or Herbal infusion if the first is too controversial). --♦♦♦Vlmastra♦♦♦ 03:17, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Oppose - Herbal "tea" is clearly not tea; while your dictionary might catalogue all slang uses of the word, this encyclopedia should only use correct titles.
I would oppose the move to Herbal infusion less strongly. Still, the word "infusion" is a little vague and that title doesn't make clear that it refers to a beverage, and this article is only about those infusions that are meant to be drunk.
The current situation - Herbal tea as a redirect and the slang term appearing in the first line - is the best arrangement. All the same information is conveyed, people still find the page but it has a more formal title. If you want to have Herbal infusion redirect here, then that would be fine too. Nick 17:46, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
But I'm sure you saw the example of jazz in the policy page I linked? Well, there they simply used jazz rather than jazz music because it's (a) simpler and (b) "jazz" as a term has little ambiguity; there is no confusion. Here, "herbal tea" has only one common meaning, and there is therefore no ambiguity. What about, say, sea cucumbers? They're only extremely remotely related to cucumbers, and that term might seem to be misleading, but there really isn't any ambiguity because the phrase "sea cucumber" has only one meaning. We might say similar things about spanish moss ("not a moss"), etc... Really, I'm all for specific naming, but not obscure naming. --♦♦♦Vlmastra♦♦♦ 20:07, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Agree – the common name is the correct one, as per the naming conventions. I'd go with herbal tea, but herbal infusion is acceptable.  — Lee J Haywood 20:51, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Agree – "tisane" is just too obscure a word. Although "infusion" is the most correct English word (and also far more recognizable than "tisane"), it is a bit too ambiguous and "herbal infusion" would be too much of an artificial construct. "Herbal tea" is the most common phrase used for herbal teas, and Random House Dictionary even defines "tisane" by calling it a tea. (dictionary.com) Blueaster 04:54, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
Agree Tisane is highly obscure, and very few people have heard of it, much less use it. We use sea horse, although it is not a horse, we use sea cucumber although it is not a cucumber, Spanish moss although it is not a moss, sea hare although it is not a hare. While herbal tea is technically not a tea, it is closer to tea than a sea horse is to a horse. The title of the page ought to be "herbal tea".--RLent 18:41, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Oppose Wikipedia has to be used to educate the people correctly and should itself be used to alter common misnamings. I prefer tisane. KVDP (talk) 09:26, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

As I sense a general consensus, I am moving Tisane to Herbal tea. Blueaster 19:21, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

wow, almost all of the links to this page refered to "hebal tea" and not "tisane".... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blueaster (talk • contribs) 19:26, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Okay there little history menetioned. For example which area around the used herbal tea, years ago. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.38.211.144 (talk) 00:24, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] First line rewrite

An herbal tea, tisane, or ptisan is an herbal infusion made from anything other than the leaves of the tea bush (Camellia sinensis).

change to-->

An herbal tea, tisane, or ptisan is a infusion made from anything other than the leaves of the tea bush (Camellia sinensis).

The reason why this "herbal" would be deleted is because then the same line can be used with the coffee, tea, ginger ale, ... article and would show their similarities better.

KVDP (talk) 13:39, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Stevia health concerns ?

In the article on stevia, at least 3 articles sited debunk the lack of carcinogen properties of the plant. Furthermore one study shows how the original paper on the carcinogen properties where due to flawed experimenting. In that context I believe it's unwarranted to keep the phrase "Be advised: Stevia may be carcinogenic." in an article about herbal tea. 24.200.41.142 (talk) 13:16, 14 June 2008 (UTC)