Talk:Henry Temple, 3rd Viscount Palmerston
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This article incorporates text from the Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition, now in the public domain. |
 |
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page. | ||
| B | This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ] | ||
 |
This article is supported by the Politics and government work group. | ||
 |
This article is supported by WikiProject Peerage. | ||
I deleted the following timeline:
1784 Born.
1807. Junior Lord of Admirality under Lord Portland. 1809 Secretary at War (till 1828). 1827 Elevated to cabinet under George Canning.
1828 Secretary at War under Duke of Wellington, resigns over Manchester/Brimingham parliamentary representation.
1830 Foreign Secretary under Earl Grey (till 1841).
1846-52 Foreign Secretary under Lord John Russell (till 1851 when he resigned, weeks later bringing down the Russell government).
1852 Home Secretary under Earl of Aberdeen (till Aberdeen's government is brought down by failure in the Crimea war).
1852 Prime Minister, First Lord of the Treasury.
1856 Peace in Crimea.
1857 Chinese policy crisis, Palmerston loses confidence of Commons but wins election.
1858 resigns over policy on revolutionarys harboured by Britain.
1859 Prime Minister, First Lord of the Treasury.
1865 Dies (in office).
If someone wants to make complete sentences out of this and merge it into the article instead of just leaving this as sentence fragments, please do so. -- Zoe
Ermm... I'm new here but why delete the page? If there is a question of style surely just making a comment on this talk page would have been better. Instead, I now feel upset that you've removed some of my hard work and (in my view) reduced the usefulness of the encyclopedia.
I'm with Nferrier on this one. There's no reason to remove it purely for grammatical or stylistic reasons. --Dante Alighieri 22:45 Dec 5, 2002 (UTC)
Anyway, I've changed it. Personally I think timelines are quite useful when you have areas of knowledge not well covered, they mean it's quick and easy to get knowledge onto the net. Removing knowledge from the wiki is surely a bad idea. -- Nferrier
It's general Wikipedia policy that we use complete sentences. -- Zoe
- Well, we are talking about timelines here. Check out the entries for dates (i.e, 1846), and you'll see that it's not what I would call general policy in that sort of situation. --Dante Alighieri 00:38 Dec 6, 2002 (UTC)
Hmmm... imho it's still better to not remove knowledge from this wiki because it's prime function is to be a repository of knowledge, not a repository of nicely formatted knowledge. According to the rules of the wiki you should have changed the page to use scentances - if you didn't have time to do that then maybe you should have left it... or put something on the talk page and come back to it later (otherwise you're not giving newbies the chance to learn the rules and improve their contributions). User:Nferrier
- I DID put something in the talk page indicating why I deleted the info I did and what needed to be done. It wasn't a matter of not having time, it was a matter of not having the inclination to rewrite the whole thing. -- Zoe
This article reads like it was copied from somewhere (out of copyright encyclopedia?) -- it should say somewhere where this was taken from. There are obvious OCR errors in the text, too.
I made the first version of this article. I wrote it from my own memory of Palmerston's career. The dates and quotes are a matter of public record. The article was radically restructred by others so I can't speak for them. However, originally it was an original /8-> -- Nferrier
Much of it is from 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica, which I copied it from. If there are OCR errors, they should be corrected - I thought I got most of them. john k 20:33, 4 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Contents |
[edit] which pocket borough?
I have not corrected it as yet, but my sources indicate in 1807 Palmerston was elected for Newport and not Newtown on the Isle of Wight. Both were pocket boroughs although Newtown was amongst the more rotten of the rotten boroughs due to its small size and thus, alongside the similarity in the name, this mistake could easily have been made in more than one source. Any further research on this would be good. (Dainamo, not logged on 14 June 2004)
Although there are other resources on google search giving Newtown, there appears to be more authorative resources in addition to Britannica 1998 edition giving Newport as the correct pocket borough. Additionally patron of pocket borough linked with Palmerston was Sir Leonard Holmes, linked with Newport and not one of the two controlling families of Newtown. Hence, changed it Dainamo
Definitely Newport: According to James Chamber's biography of Palmerston (Palmerston: The People's Darling), it was Newport on the Isle of Wight, but that Palmerston himself was in the habit of incorrectly referring to it as Newton, as did his political patron Earl Malmesbury, who was slightly deaf. -- Q.
[edit] Name
Did he actually use both forenames, or is this just one of the many peer articles at the full name for no real reason? Proteus (Talk) 20:53, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
What were his views on the US Civil War Bastie 17:40, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Palmerston and Aberdeen re the Oregon Question
Many years ago in a work of geopolitical/diplomatic history - I think it was in AJP Taylor's 1848-1918: The Struggle for Mastery in Europe - the author says that the Treaty of Washington (the Oregon Treaty) as just ratified by the US Congress was in the mail packet and the vessel being late, still somewhere on the Atlantic when governments changed in England. Had it arrived on time, apparently Aberdeen's plan had been to reject the treaty offered and declare war, but Palmerston wanted to avoid war so signed the treaty (the author, Taylor I'm guessing, said because of his experience on Napoleonic battlefields, and I remember Austerlitz as being mentioned, or one battle in particular). Rejection of the treaty would have signalled British determination to hold to the line of the Columbia River from the 49th Parallel southwards, which had been the last British offer, and would have implied a continental war as well as, implicitly, a struggle for naval superiority in the Pacific, and in one tangential scenario implying British support, or even a protectorate, over then-still-Mexican California. Further implications are irrelevant here, but I'm hoping someone here might have expertise in foreign policy of the day and might be willing/able to comment on particulars of Aberdeen's and Palmerston's particular policies on "Oregon" (the American name for the region, which was variously the Columbia District, New Caledonia or Vancouver Island depending on where you were). The current Oregon boundary dispute and Oregon Treaty articles are very APOV (American point-of-view) although I've done some fixes; but since Canadian history does not address the diplomatic stituation here it's British imperial history that's needed to balance the American context of the current articles (q.v.); and for my own sake I'm interested in the treaty and negotiations and the manoeuvrings in relation to it; apparently Aberdeen had studied the issue through his years in office and knew what was at stake (the best land in the area, among other things, and more extensive ports and coal) while Palmerston didn't have as much of a grasp of it; there were much bigger things going on in the world but apparently for a brief few weeks now and then this became pivotal, as with the Nootka Crisis long before. Anyone got any refs/comments?Skookum1 07:16, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
- Taylor has a tendency to go far out on a limb. If it is his theory, I would not include it here unless it were consensus, which I doubt. (Oregon question is another matter; and even there I would put "A.J.P. Taylor asserts..." as a warning.) Septentrionalis PMAnderson 20:18, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Trivia
This is an article about one of the UK's greatest prime ministers, who shaped world events. Do we really need a section on a two minute discussion in some Simpson's episode. I'm sure he's been referred to in thousands of works of literature and film. --Sandy Scott 10:01, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Per an IMDB character search on "Palmerston," he actually appears as a character in The Lady with the Lamp (1951), about Florence Nightingale; Sixty Glorious Years (1938), about the reign of Queen Victoria; Victoria the Great (1937), likewise; Balaclava (1928), presumably about the Battle of Balaclava; Edward the King (1975), about the life of Edward VII; A Dispatch from Reuter's (1940), apparently about the development of the Reuters wire service; and the French movie "Le Diable boiteux," whose theme is unclear. john k 17:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Note that Felix Aylmer played him in all three of the first movies. john k 17:06, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
I've added his marriage/affair with Lady Cowper, but have not worked out how to insert references (first posting!) - the ref is to Oxford DNB, KD Reynolds 'Temple, Emily' and David Steele 'Temple, Henry John'. Hope this is ok. Subtlemouse 22:14, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
