Talk:Henri Charrière

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[edit] Biography assessment rating comment

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- Edofedinburgh 01:42, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

The link on El Dorado leads to a disambiguation page that makes no mention of Venezuelan prisons. I very much doubt that this link is correct, but I have no idea what the correct link should be.

Whoops: Google comes up with "the El Dorado colony prison in south eastern Bolivar State", so, it looks like the disambiguation page is incomplete.

[edit] Columbia to Colombia

I changed Columbia (the name of several cities in the US) to Colombia (the name of the South American country). (unsigned comment)

[edit] Paragraphs

Add some paragraphs somewhere maybe? (unsigned comment)

[edit] After Papillon

There's a second book by Henri Charriere called Banco. It mentions that at some stage his crimes in france passed their statute of limitations and he could return. Therefore the last line in this article is incorrect. Perhaps someone could add this data in? 219.73.49.226

[edit] El Dorado link incorrect

Could someone, please, edit the main article to change the link for "El Dorado" from the tale about the missing gold to El Dorado Prison? It won't let me edit the main article. Sbrobin 16:08, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Done! Verne Equinox 15:39, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Butterfly tattoo

I am currently reading Papillon, and in it Charrière claims the tattoo is on his lower back. (unsigned comment)

The butterfly tattoo was on his chest. He had about a half dozen or so. (unsigned comment)
So I conclude there really is no conclusive evidence either way, or is there? Extremely sexy 17:37, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
There is a picture of him with his shirt open on the back cover of the book that I have. It's on his chest. You can see the beginnings of some others, but you can't make them out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.186.172.75 (talk) 17:52, 29 March 2007 (UTC).
Then the article is wrong I suppose? Extremely sexy 18:03, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
It only talks about the butterfly tattoo, which is correct as far as it goes, just not complete. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.186.172.75 (talk) 09:47, 7 April 2007 (UTC).

"I rose, taking off my jacket. As I did so, she saw the butterfly tattoed low on my back - it showed in the opening of my shirt. She looked more closely, and then finding other tattooes she took my shirt off herself to see them better. All of them, men and women too, were deeply interested in the designs on my chest; on the right, a soldier of a punishment-battalion; on the left, a woman's face; on my backbone, a big crucified sailor; and right across the lower part of my back, a tiger-hunt with hunters, palm-trees, elephants and tigers". From the book (page 157). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.109.76.160 (talk) 14:35, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

The DVD of the 1973 film "Papillon" includes a documentary (of the "Making of..." genre) which includes an interview with Henri Charrière himself, shot on location. In this Charrière is wearing an open-necked shirt, and a butterfly tattoo is clearly visible (in the same location as Steve McQueen is shown as having it in the film). So presumably, he has more than one. Velada 06:01, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

The book was translated from French. Perhaps there was a mistranslation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.98.249.85 (talk) 21:12, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Framed?

I'm not sure that "framed for the murder of a pimp" is correct. Obviously according to Charrière he was framed but so are most crooks! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ozwebfx (talk • contribs) 12:27, 17 January 2007 (UTC).Ozwebfx 12:28, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Read the news. There seems to be an inordinant number of imprisoned folks who are later found to be innocent. Also, read!!!!!! Read of the prosecutors found to have withheld evidence that indicated a suspect who was found guilty was actually innocent. READ!!!!!! Read of the law enforcement officials from local small-town cop to FBI agents who have been found perjuring themselves in the court room. Placing undue faith in any bureaucracy is a juvenile way of looking at life. 68.13.191.153 05:41, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I did read. And while he claims innocence, he does not shy away from murder at any time during his imprisonment. Like most cons, he claims innocent, but based on his behavior, it does seem likely that he was guilty as charged. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.186.172.75 (talk) 17:02, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

I changed the bit pertaining to his conviction to reflect that while he was found guilty, he claimed he was innocent. I think this is the fair way to go, since both of these points are verifiable. intooblv 05:28, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Good job, man. Extremely sexy 10:58, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rene Belbenoit connection

Those of you interested in Charriere may want to read some books by Rene Belbenoit, another convict who escaped from French Guiana. His first novel was Dry Guillotine, published in 1938 (much earlier than Charriere's novel, published in 1969). It is fascinating to compare books as they share many of the same anecdotes, such as the story of the Masked Breton and the cannibals' break (which Belbenoit took part in). --Bobogoat 16:06, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Early life and conviction

"After a brief imprisonment in Caen he was sent to the penal colony in French Guiana."

Caen is in French Guiana, and there was a prison there. He was sent to the island prisons (Illes Du Salut - Royale, St. Joseph and Devil's Island. So this sentence needs changing. --Bobogoat 10:14, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I think you're confused: Caen is in Normandy, France. Cayenne is in French Guiana. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.45.59.30 (talk • contribs)

Thanks, you may be right, I thought Caen may have been an alternate spelling for Cayenne. I can't remember the name of where Charriere was incarcerated in France - I'll check and edit the article accordingly. --Bobogoat 12:56, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok, edited to reflect he was imprisoned in Caen, France and then went to mainland French Guiana and then the islands. --Bobogoat 15:28, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tattoo

In the article it says that his nickname was due to a tatoo of a butterfly on his chest. Although he has a butterfly tattoo on his chest in the movie, in the book he has a tattoo of a tiger on his chest instead (and a butterfly tattoo on his lower back). In the movie he gives the Indian Chief a tattoo of a butterfly where as in the book he gives the indian chief a tattoo of a tiger. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.109.76.160 (talk) 06:44, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Please quote the page number where it says this. This picture [1] from the back cover of a Papillon edition clearly shows the butterfly tattoo on his chest.--Bobogoat 16:37, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

BS! The Person who translated the book into English must have been confused with the Tatoos! The French version makes it clear that the butterfly was on his chest. Also he tatooed the Indian chief the tiger, not a butterfly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.2.244.28 (talk) 11:59, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Correction(s)

The trio were originally sentenced to five years, with three additional years added for the attempted murder of the hospital guards they knocked out in their escape attempt. Charriere was able to prove that the claims were false, thus resulting in the shorter two year sentence. Incorrect, they were never sentenced to 5 years, so this sentence will be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobogoat (talk • contribs) 17:33, 8 September 2007 (UTC) In Colombia, they received help along the way from a remarkable island of lepers - the lepers helped them in mainland French Guiana, not in Columbia. --Bobogoat 18:04, 15 September 2007 (UTC) More corrections.... In 1933, Charrière successfully escaped from a hospital on the mainland with three companions Louis Dega, Joanes Clusiot and Fernandez Maturette, sailed along the coast via Trinidad and Curaçao to Riohacha. In Colombia, they received help along the way from a remarkable island of lepers, a compassionate British family and many others. During this time, three additional escapees joined the trio on their journey to Colombia. - there were 2 companions, Clousiot (not Clusiot, unless your translation is different to mine) and Maturette. Neither of their first names are given in the book (correct me if I am wrong). --Bobogoat 18:04, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but there are separate articles about all of them and every source does say "Clusiot" anyway, my dear friend. Extremely sexy 12:36, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Please specify these sources (besides the linked Wikipedia articles). I know the book intimately, and I am positive that neither Maturette's nor Clousiot's first names are given. Point me to the page number and or paragraph in the Papillon book which specifies their first names. Furthermore, the "Clusiot" and "Fernandez Maturette" articles were full of mistakes so I assume whoever authored them is unfamiliar with Charriere/Papillon. And Louis Dega did not take part in this escape, nor any escape in Papillon. --Bobogoat 17:25, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
So then you should correct all those articles. Extremely sexy 14:50, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Maturette's first name is given in the book. However, it is André. (It is given when he and Papillon are being entertained in the British colony (Trinidad), and Papillon comments on his reaction to the girls addressing them as "Monsieur Henri" and "Monsieur André". Clousiot is in the hospital at this point, since he has a broken leg not a party to this conversation.) - Velada 06:09, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Quite right, thanks for that --Bobogoat 12:33, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Further comments on names

1) 'Clousiot's' full name is given as 'Joanes Clousiot' (pg. 75)

Same with my translation, thanks for the confirmation --Bobogoat 12:33, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

2) Although Maturette's prénom is given as André as I mentioned above (on pg. 122), it is not given in conjunction with Maturette as a surname. Since 'Maturette' could be translated as 'Little Ripe One' (and Charrière repeatedly describes Maturette as being found young and attractive by other homosexuals)I am concerned that we are dealing with a nickname here. i.e.'Maturette' corresponds to 'Papillon' rather than to 'Charrière'.

3) This discussion may be irrelevant anyway - Patrick O'Brian, who translates my copy of "Papillon" into Engish, states

As a matter of principle we have changed the names of all the convicts warders and governors of the prison services, the book's intention being not to attack individuals but to describe given characters and a given community (pp. 13-4)

So are we just discussing pseudonyms anyway? If these are pseudonyms, is it appropriate to have separate Wiki articles on these people?

Does anyone have either the French edition, or one by another translator, to compare the names used there?

My above citations refer to the 2005 Harper Perennial edition of "Papillon" Velada 22:28, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of emotive words

In an attempt to make this read like more of an encyclopedic article and not an opinion piece, I have removed numerous emotive words like "astounding" and "tragic." --Bobogoat 17:33, 18 September 2007 (UTC)