Talk:Hawaiian name
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[edit] 'okina
I would suggest two things: 1) Do not treat " ‘ " as a separate letter for listing, as most users coming here will not know if a name starts with the ‘okina. Hawaiian-English dictionaries do not treat the ‘okina that way (‘a comes after a). 2) No need for an "unsorted" list. Just put the name in the proper place in the list and maybe do not bold if lacking information about it (like proper Hawaiian spelling). Names unbolded are essentially suggestions for further development, but are presumably "real" Hawaiian names in use - Marshman 18:17, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Votes for deletion
This article was proposed for deletion. The result after debate was to keep. See Talk:Hawaiian name/deletion for the discussion and record of votes. Postdlf 06:11, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
[edit] 2007-02-24 Automated pywikipediabot message
--CopyToWiktionaryBot 03:37, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] External link
I added the external link "Hawaiian Naming Practices" in August 2006 and it was there until JereKrischel deleted it in February (together with another link that was clearly nonsense).The link I put back contains original material not found in books and gives useful background information about Hawaiian names in the nineteenth century, and the formation of surnames.It is one of the sources of this article (that is practically written by me). It is not commercial.If this link isn't acceptable, I'm mystified why the Star Bulletin link(also added by me) is?
By the way, I do appreciate it that somebody wipes out spam links and silly contributions to this article .There is a lot of nonsense written about Hawaiian names in the web.
Makaokalani 13:38, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
- Mahalo Makaokalani for your comment. Could it be more appropriate to cite the article you're mentioning, rather than simply external linking it? It seems that at least some of that content could be included here, with a simple:
<ref>Hawaiian Naming Practices, "Target Your Hawaiian Genealogy and others as well"</ref>
- It seems like it isn't a very reliable source all in all, even though some of the information is interesting. I'd be curious as to who "Marina Kaina" referenced by the article really is, and where "Target Your Hawaiian Genealogy and others as well" was ever published. Perhaps we could find better sources? --JereKrischel 06:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
I haven't seen the publication so I cannot use it as a reference. Can you find it in book form? You judge the link by its author, I judge it by contents. The most convincing part of the website "Hawaiian Roots" is a list of Ka Hae Hawaii obituaries 1857-61. Somebody who knows Hawaiian has been alphabetizing the names, but sadly stopped half way through. Completed, it would be a fine sample of nineteenth-century Hawaiian names. Maybe you don't find them as fascinating as I do?
I will be delighted if you find a better external link. There isn't much choice. See User_talk:Marshman#Authentic_traditional_Hawaiian_names.3F Almost anything worthwhile written about Hawaiian names seems to go back to Pukui&Elbert(&Mo'okini).Patrick Ka'ano'i&Robert Snakenberg have written a book translating English names into Hawaiian, but the way I see it this article tells about actual usage, it's not a list of name suggestions.Makaokalani 13:41, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Wikipedia or Wiktionary
I'm mystified by these Wiktionary tags. Can somebody explain where should this article be, in the Wikipedia or Wiktionary?
I could split in into two parts,"Hawaiian name" and "List of Hawaiian names", with a little editing.If the "List of Hawaiian names" must go into the Wiktionary (which is a bad idea in my opinion) could some technically gifted person fix the 'okina template in the Transwiki version and change its name into "Appendix:Hawaiian given names"? I dare not delete anything from either side before the Wiktionary version is readable.
This name list includes etymologies, a rough estimate of the popularity of each name,notes on well-known name bearers,links to Wikipedia articles on plants, history,etc. Meanwhile the "Given name appendices" in the Wiktionary are mostly just lists of names, sometimes with etymologies, but nothing extra. Suppose somebody decides that "This Hawaiian name list is too encyclopedic" and wipes out all the extra information?
Or are the Wiktionary name lists supposed to be edited to contain information like this one? I could edit many of them, but what's the point? If you are really interested in, say, German names you can consult the German Wikipedia. Names in endangered languages deserve special treatment because there is no Hawaiian Wikipedia (that could be taken seriously).The Wiktionary starts from the premise that there is an established set of given names in every language. But Hawaiian names are still being made. How many do you want - I have a list of about 4,000? Have you tried making a list of all Chinese given names?
On the other hand there is not enough material to make an article on each name and a category. Besides a plain list of names tells you nothing. Names are most meaningful as a group,with explanations and data on their frequency.
Could the Wiktionary name lists be made more accessible? They are almost impossible to find. An ordinary Wiktionary user won't have any idea that they even exist. I don't like to throw my work down into a black hole.
I'll be here at the same time tomorrow.Makaokalani 11:08, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
- I'm still not entirely certain myself what to do with all these lists. I originally wrote the first drafts of this list, and the lists of Hebrew names and Arabic names too. The other lists were moved to Wiktionary appendices too, and I've never been clear on how to transwiki the Wikipedia name subject articles and the Wiktionary appendices with one another. As for the okina template, I wrote that too—I can make sure it's copied over. - Gilgamesh 18:27, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- Wiktionary now has a corresponding okina template. - Gilgamesh 18:31, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- In my view this article should stay also in the Wikipedia. Some redundancy (the names with explanations) will not harm either Wikipedia nor Wiktionary. This list is definitely more than a dictionary entry (see also Talk:Hawaiian name/deletion). By the way there is a Hawaiian Wikipedia. --ThT 02:52, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] List of names?
I have a problem with "lists of names" (I mean people names): they can never be complete. I think some particularly dim people may become confused an believe if it's not on the list, it's not a Hawaiian name. The truth is, when you say "this is an list of Hawaiian names in an encyclopedia", you imply that it's a complete list, as encyclopedias are supposed to document as much as possible. Anyway, I changed the section title to "List of Common Hawaiian Names", as that's really what it is. The first line even states that it is only for names known to be possessed be a certain number of people. It is the nature of first names, especially nowadays, to be changed and altered as suit the chooser's whim, or made up from various sources. Making the list of common names eliminates the need to add anomalous names that are Hawaiian but not really used. Please discuss if you want to change it. Garnet avi (talk) 04:53, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
