Talk:Hawaii's airline Employees Repelling Ornstein

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[edit] Notability

The big problem I have with this article is, what has HERO done that is notable? Per the article, its only claim to fame is putting up a website, and there are plenty of groups with websites that are not notable. Wikipedia is not a soapbox; it seems like this article is written more to publicize HERO's cause than about the group itself. —C.Fred (talk) 22:46, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] What has HERO done that is notable?

Thanks Fred, OK here you go. HERO has done three notable things, or two if you combine 1 & 2.


[edit] FIRST HERO had $19 fares named after itself by Mesa.

These "$19 HERO fares", designed by Mesa to bully and intimidate HERO to removing the website, backfired on Mesa and produced some of the worst Press for that airline since the 2003 accident in Charlotte, NC.

$19 fare war resumes, intensifies bizjournals.com as quoted on Yahoo, September 22, 2006

Excerpt: "Mesa billed the offer as a "H.E.R.O. fare," an apparent inside joke: last week a group called H.E.R.O., for "Hawaii airline employees repelling Ornstein," was formed by rank-and-file employees of other local airlines to rebut statements by Mesa CEO Jonathan Ornstein. These $19 fares were viewed by most as a public display of open hostility by Mesa and Ornstein.

  • THIS IS WHAT THE STAR BULLETIN SAID, THEY ARE NOT QUOTING ANYBODY.

Airlines say Go! taking revenge for criticism Honolulu Star-Bulletin, September 23, 2006 Go!'s so-called $19 "Hero" fare, which must be purchased by next Saturday, apparently is a retaliatory shot at a group of Hawaiian, Aloha and Island Air employees who have put up a Web site called www.dontflygo.com. The name of their group is H.E.R.O., "Hawaii's airline Employees Repelling Ornstein."

This open display of hostility by Mesa towards HERO and the rest of Hawaii's Airline employees was also recognized by such as,

  • Pacific Business News [1]
  • The CEO of Hawaiian Mark Dunkerly [2]
  • The CEO of Aloha David Banmiller [3]
  • The CEO of Island Air, Rob Maraucher [4] and [5]

This is notable because it satisfied one of the HERO stated goals "to get Ornstein to expose his true hostile nature" to the people of Hawaii. It is also notable because in the 21st Century, the internet has become a powerful medium to make things happen via grassroots efforts. Until HERO, Ornstein, Mesa and go! were able to say whatever they wanted to the media without challenge.

This also notable because a small group of unfunded or lightly funded rank and file employees are taking on a major US Airline and their entire well funded legal, advertising, and marketing departments. HERO still seems to be effective in getting their tiny voices heard. HERO thus is a shining example of how to succeed in a grassroots effort.

[edit] SECOND, HERO has encouraged their fellow employees and their management.

  • Pacific Business News [6]
  • Honolulu Star Bulletin [7]
  • The CEO of Hawaiian Mark Dunkerly [8]
  • The CEO of Aloha David Banmiller [9]
  • The CEO of Island Air, Rob Maraucher [10] and [11]


[edit] THIRD, HERO was sucessful to stop Mesa from manipulating an on-line poll,

and their using the results as a reason to extend the $19 HERO fares, causing more harm to the other carriers who must match the prices.

  • The Honolulu Star-Bulletin concluded a 5 day internet poll on September 29, 2006. The question was: "Will the entrance of Mesa Air Group's go! airline in the Hawaii market be good in the long run?"
  • the Star-Bulletin was alerted to five different corporate e-mails from Mesa asking all of their employees to participate in the poll. [12]
  • see main wikipedia HERO article [13] for the details of this poll, HERO was credited with stopping the manipulation of the poll. [14]

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mokulele (talk • contribs) 02:09, 23 October 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Cleanup needed

Upon further consideration, because of the media coverage, HERO is, IMHO, notable. I also think the article is reasonably neutrally written to be out of the realm of an attack article, so I've withdrawn my request for speedy deletion and my suggestion that the article fails the notability criteria. However, I think the article needs some major attention on a few lines:

  • Rewrite the article into a generally neutral-POV style. I haven't done a search for Mesa's rebuttals to HERO, but that would be appropriate for inclusion.
  • Convert the inline article links to proper footnotes, with the <ref> and <references /> tags.
  • Quotation style. I think the article is contentious-enough in nature that significant use of quotations is justified to establish that comments and opinions are those of third parties and not Wikipedia editors. They should be presented in standard style, though: quotation marks for short quotes, block quotes for longer.

Because I feel the writing style is the biggest current problem, I have applied the {{inappropriate tone}} tag to the article. —C.Fred (talk) 03:33, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Last Edit Talk

I added blockquotes. I have tried my best to fix the references page, I hope it works for you. I have added the few quotes Ornstein and Joe Bock have made in reference to HERO. They really dont like to mention HERO because it always gets HERO more press. Just like what happened when they disputed the website here Go! disputes health-care charge

Thanks for helping me make the page better Fred.

[edit] inappropriate tone still?

Hi C.Fred, thanks for all the help, anything else I can do to remove the "inappropriate tone" tag? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mokulele (talk • contribs) .

Well, you can see I've made it through the first section, almost, with rewriting the article. It needs to be more of a cohesive article than a jumble of quotes. Hopefully the first bit gives you an idea where I think it needs to go. —C.Fred (talk) 20:14, 23 October 2006 (UTC)