Talk:Hans-Ulrich Rudel

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This person is a Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross recipient

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Hans-Ulrich Rudel article.
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[edit] Record holder

Shouldn't the fact that he holds the record for the most mission sorties be mentioned in the introductory paragraph? --WhiteEcho 16:06, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

The initial paragraph lists 3,530 sorties flown, while a later one (under "Achievements") lists 2,530. It would appear that one of these must be incorrect... 24.238.58.138 20:01, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kills

His kills should be mentioned.

He has more than 2000 kills. How can you name them all? I read about his missions from the book he himself wrote and he had a few unbelievable kills, especially against the T-31s rolling into Germany. But naming a few would not make a sense, as it is not that informative. --WhiteEcho 16:08, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A-10

Is there a source for the statement that his input was sought on the development of the A-10? I would be interested in knowing where that comes from.

Also, if this refers to the American A-10, then this sentence should appear in its chronological position - not here, when WW2 is still being discussed. altmany 00:58, August 12, 2005 (UTC)
The story of A-10 is very strange, yes he was in it. I will write the story into wikipedia if I have time. The A-10 design is based on a hungarian late-WWII Ju-87 derivative design, powered by two Jumo-004 early jet engines in the tail. I have a copy of its three-view. Rudel helped outline it, when he was fighting in Hungary in autumn 1944. The airframe was captured 2/3rd complete by americans in southern Germany in May 1945 and taken to USA. It was forgotten until A-9/A-10 designers discovered it in a warehouse. They found a note about the Rudel connection and contacted the old man for A-10 insight. 195.70.32.136 20:08, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

We still need the source for that.--J.A.

[edit] No peace

When the guy died in 1982, Luftwaffe F-4 Phantom fighters flew in Iron Cross formation over his funeral, which ignited a diplomatic protest from the soviet bloc. 195.70.32.136 15:39, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Weapons

It should be noted that Rudel originally flew the Ju-87B/D versions which were dive bomber planes. By mid-1942 dive bombing became an obsolete tactic, as planes were too easy to shoot down while diving straight.

He was then retrained to operate the anti-tank variant of the Ju-87G, equipped with two 37mm caliber long barreled autocannon in fixed underwing pods. This weapon fired tungsten core projectiles and could pierce even the turret of the main soviet battle tanks then in service. These planes flew horizontally and as close to the ground as possible to evade AA artillery.

However, only Rudel and a few select German pilots could fly and aim the Ju-87G precisely enough to hit tanks reliably. Even his wingmen came near anywhere his kill ratio. But he did kill most of those 500+ tanks in the cannon-armed Ju-87G. Those 512 (or 519) tanks and 800 trucks are worth more than the entire equipment of an entire soviet tank army, so it was a tremendous loss to the Red Army. 195.70.32.136 15:48, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

  • I am 100% sure that these figures were "inflated" for propaganda purposes by the Luftwaffe and the Nazi ministry of Propaganda. Mieciu K 23:09, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
No, it was not. There are many photos of T-34 wrecks and eye witness accounts which testify for Rudel's marksmanship. The Hungarian fighter pilot Tibor Tobak wrote in his memoire about occasions when his squadron gave top cover for Rudel's unit during autumn 1944 and how they saw Rudel's tremedous efficiency in hitting Soviet tanks with the 37mm autocannons. 195.70.32.136 14:23, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Whhops! apologies , but ive accidentally revised the discussion notes here rather than the main text- could someone revert to the earlier version for me? thanks [[[User:Harryurz|Harryurz]] 10:53, 4 November 2006 (UTC)]

[edit] Photos

A comprehensive collection of photos of Hans-Ulrich Rudel and his aircraft can be found at www.pilotenbunker.de (in German). I've included one in the article under fair use guidelines.--Toms2866 01:50, 1 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Edits & Notes of 060606

1. Para 1 states: "Rudel is famous for being the most decorated German in the war". Is he? I'd never heard of him until I came across this article.

2. I have rewritten, substantially edited and incorporated para 2 into para 1.

3. I have changed all dates to the European way, (they were 1/2 European and 1/2 American) - the article is about a European.

4. I have moved the 'planes destroyed' to just after the 'vehicles destroyed'. In its origional form, it sounded like he had sunk the planes.

5. I have changed the spelling of the Russian currency to conform with that of the Oxford English dictionary.

6. I am still confused by the penultimate paragraph. In one sentence it states that Rudel was 'the most decorated soldier in Germany'(but see 1 above). Huh? I thought he was a pilot. Then it goes on to say that Gǒring was the most decorated.

RASAM 14:10, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, he is the most decorated but the Germans have a habit of being very discreet about the whole WW2 thing (shame, you know), and his name has faded away in their memory. When I mentioned his name to one of my German relatives, who served during WW2 in the Wehrmacht, he could not believe I knew his name (and I am not even German myself). He showed me his uniform, he was so-so proud of it, and apparently it was not something he did often. --WhiteEcho 16:12, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jewish Mistress

The text added recently to this page noting that Rudel had a Jewish mistress is very interesting. I have found what is apparently its source in an untitled document: kudiglib.ku.edu/projects/rigg_bm.pdf, but as a fact it lacks substantiation and proper citation. I'm hesitant to remove it, however, since it seems such a profound insight into the man. I'll continue to look at time permits, but anyone else verify or refute this statement?

[edit] Rank

Why is his rank listed as being major? At the and of WWII Rudel was a colonel of the Luftwaffe. I edited his rank to colonel but someone changed it back to major. Please correct his rank to colonel and leave it so.

Provide proper citation first. John Reaves 15:37, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


The sites in the external link section of the article clearly state that his final rank in the Luftwaffe was Colonel or Oberst ( http://www.pilotenbunker.de/Stuka/Rudel/rudel.htm ). And on all pictures after 1.1.1945. you can clearly see his rank being colonel ( http://www.pilotenbunker.de/Stuka/Rudel/rudel.htm ). So please correct this error.

[edit] Planes shot down

In the intro, it says 13, but in the Achievements section, it claims 9. Which is it? Clarityfiend 17:20, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I haven't been able to confirm 13, though a couple of sources say 9. The Achievements section, however, appears to be referring to ground targets when it lists the number of aircraft he destroyed as opposed to him having "shot down 13 aircraft." It still seems like those numbers should be reversed.... Geeman 21:58, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Release by the Americans

How come he was released by the Americans without being subject to the 'Yalta Agreement'? Hartmann and other German pilots had to serve time in Soviet prisons, yet Rudel seemed to have avoided it all. Jaker5 05:45, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes Rudel did seem to live a charmed life! I have not come across any literature that gives a specific answer on this question. The book Hans Ulrich Rudel by Gunther Jost mentions he was wounded at the time, his 'stump' leg seems to have needed medical attention and this is perhaps what led to him remaining with the western allies rather than immediately being handed over. He did obtain a transfer to a German military hospital after being in a POW in camp in England and france and then he was just released. Perhaps the allies knew he would most likley by treated badly by the soviets. As I understand Hartmann might have stayed with the Americans had it not been for his insisting he return to his unit on the Eastern front. He rejected the chance to fly the me 262's, a lot of 262 pilots were kept by the US because they had invaluable combat experience on the Jets.Dapi89 21:14, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Limited Education

After a limited education? He had/passed the Abitur.

[edit] Lieutenant Rank

I have corrected the use of the English/American Lieutenant Rank, to the German Leutnant. This only serves to make sense, as the American rank equivalent is bi-hierarchical. And later in the article we use the term "Oberstleutnant". Therefore not using the anglophonic lieutenant makes for better and more agree able native German reading of the article, and also improves the over all quality of the accuracy, as there is only one Luftwaffe Leutnant rank attainable.

- Xelous - 21st june 2007

[edit] Golden Oak Leaves with Sword and Diamonds

Rudel was awarded the Golden Oak leaves on January 1st 1945 ! Please correct the error in the article. Regards Bruce Marvin 22:34, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I also changed it to show that while he was one of the few to win it, he was not the only one. 70.45.166.124 00:42, 15 November 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Notorious nazi.

He was said to be the head of a secret post-WII nazi-helper organization called "Kamaradenwerke", which continued the activities of the ODESSA project. He helped Josef Mengele escape and hide in South Ameria. 91.83.6.174 20:40, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Reference necessary. Med 20:46, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

This information has been added without citation as directed. I have removed it. It is highly suspect, and I would demand a very reliable source. User Mrg3105: "its a matter of bograpical [biographical] fact and how he was able to move back to germany". Is it really? Then it will not be too difficult to find a citation for will it? As an experienced editor you should know this cannot stand without one, or else it's tantermount to slander. Dapi89 (talk) 02:20, 25 March 2008 (UTC)