Talk:Hank Williams

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Archives: 1

Hank Williams has had a peer review by Wikipedia editors which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article.

Hank Williams was a good article nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There are suggestions below for improving the article. Once these are addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. Reviewed version: August 30, 2006

Archives
June 2003 – May 2006

Contents 1 Contradictions 2 Contradictory spelling 3 Collaboration 4 Images 5 Link-spamming from someone in the IP address block 64.228.225.xxx 6 the ride? 7 Billie Jean 8 Failed GA Nomination 9 Documentary 10 Singles table 11 Requested move 11.1 Survey 11.2 Discussion 12 Agree with move 13 Comment from article 14 Instrument Edit 15 Against Audrey Williams merge 16 "Trivia" portion deleted, not integrated 17 Military Service? 18 Cover songs 19 The Backseat Lyrics 19.1 from the Country music article - here for safe keeping 20 Backbone/spina bifida 21 Javascript

[edit] Contradictions

Early career

..."So many listeners contacted the radio station asking for more of the "Singing Kid" that the producers hired him to host his own fifteen-minute show, twice a week for a weekly salary of fifteen dollars."

Drifting Cowboys

Now free to travel without Hank's school schedule taking precedence, the band was able to tour as far away as western Georgia, and the Florida Panhandle. Meanwhile, Hank returned to Montgomery every weekday to host his radio show.

[edit] Contradictory spelling

Under "Later Career" a name is given as "Bobby" Jett, then under "Death" it appears as "Bobbie" Jett. Any citations? Gverbnu 18:08, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Collaboration

OK, where do we start? Right off, I see a couple problems with the article. The main issue is a lack of reliable sources and in-line citations. Another issue is that the article isn't very aestheticly pleasing...the way it's formatted and arranged makes it hard to read (at least in my browser); there's a lot of empty white space next to the images and long tables in the body of the article. The whole article could also use a thorough copyedit for grammar, style, usage, etc. I say we should start by finding (and sharing) good sources.--WilliamThweatt 00:44, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I archived the previous discussion of this page to get rid of some clutter. It would be great to find a public-domain image of Hank Williams. Other images would help the article aesthetically also. And the Tributes section needs to be wikified (and perhaps moved to another article). Besides that, you're right. The article just needs to be expanded, with in-line citations. I'm about to start a section about his "childhood," which seems like a logical place to start. I'd say the childhood section should probably go up to the time at which Hank moved to Montgomery and started performing on air, so it's OK if anyone else wants to go ahead and start working on anything else. --TantalumTelluride 20:12, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

In the childhood section, should I refer to him as Hiram or Hank? At the time, he hadn't yet adopted the name Hank, but many readers might be confused by the name Hiram. Any suggestions? --TantalumTelluride 20:17, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I think Hiram works in the childhood section, but it needs a transition sentence, (maybe at the beginning of the "career" section) pointing out when (and maybe why) he switched to "Hank". I don't have the info or I would do it myself.--WilliamThweatt 01:19, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Unless someone else gets around to doing it first, I'm planning on expanding the rest of the article, too. I've checked out a few biographies from the library, so I have plenty of reliable sources. By the way, thanks for fixing my grammar and stylistics. --TantalumTelluride 01:26, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Since I volunteered to collaborate, maybe I should say/do something at this point. The introductory paragraph should, I think, be a lot more concise and a lot less tabloid: surely that's not the best place to speculate as to the reasons for his success and whether "his legend has only grown".

In general, I would propose:

-that the Childhood section be significantly re-written for clarity - that seems to be in hand already (see above). -that the Career section be sub-divided into: Early Career; Stardom; Style -- something along those lines. As it stands, it's a confused mix of timeline, trivia, and commentary. -that the Legacy and Influence section become a section about his legacy and influence: that's not what it is right now.

Before I take an initial hatchet to it, I will re-visit this discussion page a few times. Db3811 12:34, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you about the introduction. I changed the wording to keep it all in the present tense, but I didn't mean to endorse that version of it. Feel free to completely rewrite it if you want to. I just recently expanded the childhood section a pretty good bit, but of course you can improve it in any way you see fit. After all, that's what these collaborations are for. Be careful with the legacy/influence part of the article. Particularly, be careful to avoid weasel words and try to cite some reliable sources. --TantalumTelluride 18:26, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

In the quotes page, it lists a verse from "Tennessee Border" a song Williams did as on a radio show demo. He did not write the song. It was a popular song at the time by singer, and friend of Williams's, Red Foley. As far as insruments that Williams played, the jass horn can be added, which he played in his younger days in Montgomery. "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" is listed as a #1 hit. During its original airplay, the song failed to enter the top 20. It gained its popularity after William's death.

[edit] Images

I just noticed that the current image, taken from Wikimedia Commons, has no copyright tag or source information. There's a warning on it that if none is provided, the image is subject to deletion. I've been looking for other images. I found a few at what appears to be a Norweigian Hank Williams fan club (I don't read Norweigian...except for the words that look like German). I think they may be either Public Domain or Fair Use as part of publicity packs. Does anybody know an expert on Image Copyright issues here?--WilliamThweatt 02:23, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Which image are you refering to? The only ones I see in the article are Image:HankWilliamsSr.jpg and Image:Hank Williams Statue Detail, Montgomery, Alabama.jpg. What's up with that first one? I don't see anything there at all.

If you're looking for an image-copyright expert, you should talk to User:Carnildo. I don't think it's going to be easy to find an image of Hank Williams, though. Mercury Records operates the "official" Hank Williams website (http://www.hankwilliams.com), and they don't have a press kit. Without any publicity photos, we can't claim fair use. Our only other option is free-liscense or public-domain images, and I don't think there are any such images of Hank Williams. Most fan sites use images illegally, so be careful if you use a photo from them.

One possibility is that there might be a photo of Hank somewhere taken by an employee of the U.S. government. Even if there are other people in the photo, public-domain U.S. gov't images can be cropped to get a decent photo of the subject. This photo of Dolly Parton comes to mind as a perfect example. See Wikipedia:Public domain image resources for some sites where you might possibly find some PD photos.

I'm not far from the area where Hank grew up, so I might be able to take a picture of some landmarks myself, but of course I can't really take a picture of Hank, since no one has seen him for over 50 years. --TantalumTelluride 03:10, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I was referring to the first image. There's no source info or copyright tag at all. And I don't think we'd really want to see a current picture of Hank :-)--WilliamThweatt 03:34, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Link-spamming from someone in the IP address block 64.228.225.xxx

I keep removing links to the "Hank Williams Appreciation Society" repeatedly added by someone with varying IP addresses that start with 64.228.225. This same person is doing the same thing with many other articles; see: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Link-spamming from someone in the IP address block 64.228.225.xxx for more details and User:A. B./To do list#Articles spammed for the list of several dozen articles similarly spammed.

The "Hank Williams Appreciation Society" has some unexceptional material on Williams but is mostly advertising and links, much of it connected with the spam-links on the other other Wikipedia articles spammed by 64.228.225.xxx. Now a new user, Borgengruft just added back the link.

A lot of work has been done by someone to produce a great article -- if these bona fide contributors think this is a worthwhile link, let me know.

--A. B. 19:21, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

A. B.:

I wish to mention, that the following external links are either invalid or outdated:

1. Official Hank Williams Fan Club: "DEAD LINK" [this URL has been DEAD since July 2006]

2. Hank Williams: Lost Highway: "OUTDATED LINK" [There have been many other theatre groups performing this musical, since the one mentioned here]

3. Image of Hank Williams' death certificate: "INVALID LINK" [angelfire does not allow 'hot linking' from ad-supported accounts]

Borgenguft

[edit] the ride?

isnt david allan coe "the ride" a tribute to hank williams?Curefreak

Yes it is. also his name is David Allan Coe! - Alakey2010 07:02 pm, 09 July 2006

sure is

[edit] Billie Jean

I heard somewhere that Hank Williams was never officially married to Billie Jean becasue he was never officialy divorced from Audrey Williams. Can anyone prove this? - Alakey2010 07:06 pm, 09 July 2006.

[edit] Failed GA Nomination

At this time, I've declined the GA nomination for reasons that I'll list below. I will say that I see immense potential in this article and have no doubt that with the collaboration of the WikiProject Country Music and the dedicated editors here that this article will eventually reach FA status. I strongly encourage the editors here to resubmit for GA nomination after some of the concerns have been addressed. I also encourage you to review the format and style of Feature Articles on Musicians such as Alison Krauss, Bob Dylan, Elliott Smith and Pink Floyd for helping in seeing how to tailor an article about a musical figure into FA quality.

Now onto the GA Scorecard

1. It is well written. - Needs Improvement

I like the flow, the heading format and the prose but there are several things that stand out from what is looked for in the Manual of Style.

• There are several redundant wiki-links throughout the article where an item is wiki-linked once and then each occurence of the word is also wiki-linked. In the WP:MOS this is considered overlinking. Example. Hank Williams Jr is linked once in the intro paragraph, again in Later Career, twice in Legacy and influence, again in Music Videos, again in Singles, and then again in Tributes. In practice, only the first reference to Hank Jr. should have been wiki-linked.
• I think the chart for his singles was well done and informative, however with the length of the listing you may want to consider creating a content fork Hank Williams Singles. In the main article you could have a section listing some of Hanks biggest hits and their signifigances with a See Also link to the page with all the singles. I'm neutral on whether or not you would also want to do this with this Covers and Tributes. I will leave that up to the editors, though if you do then I would recomend combining them into one fork Hank Williams Covers and Tributes since they both relate to other artists interpretation of Hank and his influence.
• Lack of consistency in listing of cover songs. Some lines have the song listed first followed by the artist. Others have artist listed first. I would develop a consistent format here (like maybe song first in alphabetical order or maybe song first in order that it was covered, etc) and also use that format in the Tribute section.
• The Leonard Cohen quote should probably be integrated into the article somewhere. If you keep the quote section, I would keep it small and only list some particularly notable quotes by Hank himself.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable. -Needs Improvement

• Lack of reference is the biggest concern. There is only one "Source" reference listed at the bottom and only 4 in-line citations throughout the article. For an article of this scope, more references will be needed. On the positive side, the references that are listed are well formated with ISBN numbers and all. Thank you! :)

3. It is broad in its coverage. -Needs Improvement

• Overall a fair scope but there are a few notable areas that certainly merit expansion. Above all is the legacy and influence. Hank played such an important role not only in Country music but beyond. There is so much more that can be written here and deservedly so.
• There is a already tag under Later Career about the need for expansion and I echo the sentiment. I would also consider renaming it since that period was really the height of his mainstream success and the title "Later Career", when you're scanning the table of contents, doesn't really convey that.

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.- Yes

• Very well done. You were able to detail a Legend without dwelling on the positive and still be able to touch upon the warts.

5. It is stable - Yes

No major edit wars. Article has progressed gracefully.

6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.- Yes

• I love the photo of him at 13! Great find.
• The Later career section seems absent (and will be more so when it's expanded), I would consider adding on at a future point.

Again, I feel that there is immense potential in this article and I want to commend the article's editors for getting it to this point. Please let me know if I can be of any other assistance. Agne 18:16, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Documentary

Hi, I heard that there was a documentary on Hank, that was meant to be pretty good. Does anyone know what it was called? If so, let me know, and also it would be nice on the article page, too... Thanks! -postglock 12:36, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

---

Hank Williams: Honky Tonk Blues (2004)

From the American Masters series on PBS. It's available on DVD from Amazon.com, I own it, and it is very good. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by M855GT (talk • contribs) .

Cheers, thanks for the tip. -postglock 06:59, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Singles table

I reformatted the table to take out separate B-side listings for the cases where they charted. I think the curent format is more concise and readable. On the footnote, it is not clear what country charts those numbers refer to. According to the Hot Country Songs article, there were at least three charts between 1949 and 1957: jukebox charts, sales charts and DJ charts. This should be clarified and sourced. ~ trialsanderrors 20:56, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Agree with move

Yes, I agree with the move for the reasons stated in the debate. That said, perhaps it would be a good idea for an editor to mention that in the years since Hank Jr.'s rise to fame — in order to distinguish between the elder Hank Williams, his son and grandson — he has been referred to as Hank Williams, Sr. The page, however, is correctly named. [[Briguy52748 13:50, 6 November 2006 (UTC)]]

The article contains a disambiguation header now that explains it's about Hank Williams, Sr. ~ trialsanderrors 08:26, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Ya I think that disambiguation is sufficient in this case.

198.138.41.77 21:30, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comment from article

I moved this comment by an IP user here since it has no business appearing in the article itself. I also removed personal contact info. ~ trialsanderrors 00:03, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Andy Carr fails to mention that Hank died Dec 31, 1952 at 3pm after spending the day at King Tut Drive-In. They arrived at about in Bluefield WV at around 10 am that morning and went looking for a driver to negotiate the very dangerous winter pre-Interstate WV roads of the era. Hank died of an overdose injection witnessed by me. This happened after the very sick Hank got into a brawl with a barfly regular who was beating his girl friend on the dance floor (sic) dancing to a Hank tune on the juke box....

[edit] Instrument Edit

I have removed "piano" and "fiddle" from the list of instruments because, unless somebody knows something I don't, I'm positive Hank only sang and played guitar. The list of musicians that played sessions with him is practically endless, but he himself never used any other instruments...User:Snyrt -On the note of the list of musicians, has anyone ever seen anyone whose last name is Milks on that list? Odin of Trondheim 03:49, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Against Audrey Williams merge

I do not think the article on Audrey Williams should be merged with Hank's article. There should be some information regarding her in his bio, but that should be the extent of the information. It is fairly straight-forward, she was his wife and mother of Hank Jr.; she played bass on a few of his songs and may have helped write a song or two. They married and divorced twice, ending a turbulent relationship, that should be the extent of any conceived merger. - Diarmada 21:14, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Trivia" portion deleted, not integrated

I remember adding this section to the article, a long time ago when it had a trivia section:

• A stretch of highway in Alabama (from Georgiana to Millbrook) is named The Hank Williams Memorial Lost Highway.[1]

When the trivia section was removed, this was completely taken out of the article, and I was curious why. It actually gives some definition to what or where the song may have been written about. Zchris87v 17:30, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Edit: Found another source, one actually desribing it much better here [2] Zchris87v 17:33, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Military Service?

The article mentions that Hank's band mates were drafted into military service during WWII (though I suspect that they may have enlisted, as the enlistment rates were extremely high during the war). Why didn't Hank serve? He was certainly at the prime age to serve. Was it medical? Does anyone know? Buster 20:50, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cover songs

Allman Brothers did a cover of Ramblin Man. That's not mentioned here. Early 70s. 76.28.232.251 05:30, 25 October 2007 (UTC)grahamcpa@yahoo.com

[edit] The Backseat Lyrics

I've noticed a couple odd things about the description of the lyrics found in the backseat of the Cadillac after Williams' death. First, as far as I can find, Williams never titled the song. Second, the title is given as "Then Came That Fateful Day," which seems to be a misquote of the line "then came that fatal day." Is there a source for this that I'm missing, or would it be better just to say that the lyrics to an unrecorded song were found? intooblv 19:35, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] from the Country music article - here for safe keeping

Jimmie Rodgers is a major foundation stone in the structure of country music, but the most influential artist who was influenced by Rodgers is undoubtedly Hank Williams, Sr. During the years 1949 through 1953, Williams had 7 songs in Billboard's annual Top 5 Country singles, and of the 66 songs recorded under his own name, an astonishing 37 were hits.^[1] His songs have been not only been covered by many country artists, they have also been recorded by jazz, pop, and rhythm and blues performers. Songs such as "Cold, Cold Heart" and "I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry" have long been pop standards.^[2]

Williams had two personas: as Hank Williams he was a singer-songwriter and entertainer; as Luke the Drifter, he was a songwriting crusader. The complexity of his character was reflected in the introspective songs he wrote about heartbreak, happiness and love such as I'm So Lonesome I Could Cry and Your Cheating Heart; and more upbeat numbers about Cajun life ("Jambalaya") or cigar store Indians ("Kaw-Liga"). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steve Pastor (talk • contribs) 00:17, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Backbone/spina bifida

His musical catalogue is considered the backbone of country music and he had spina bifida. Well played whoever wrote that! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.13.191.121 (talk) 00:16, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Javascript

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

• Please expand the lead to conform with guidelines at Wikipedia:Lead. The article should have an appropriate number of paragraphs as is shown on WP:LEAD, and should adequately summarize the article.^[?]
• Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (numbers), when doing conversions, please use standard abbreviations: for example, miles -> mi, kilometers squared -> km², and pounds -> lb.^[?]
• Please ensure that the article has gone through a thorough copyediting so that it exemplifies some of Wikipedia's best work. See also User:Tony1/How to satisfy Criterion 1a.^[?]

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, Arch O. La ^{Grigory Deepdelver} 16:11, 14 March 2008 (UTC)