Talk:Gymnasium (school)
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In the Netherlands, there is no such thing as a matura or abitur. At the end of 6 years there's only a normal set of exams, just like other school types.
Also, the only difference between a gymnasium and an atheneum (the two varieties of VWO (preparatory scientific education)) is that in gymnasium Latin and Greek (ancient that is) are taught. I could add this, but I'm not sure where to put it and where to move the abitur/matura info to. Is that specific to Germanic countries? -- Kimiko 20:25 Apr 27, 2003 (UTC)
Can anyone establish precisely where these terms are used? The only article we have on the Matura is about Austria. It was at Matura (Austria), but since there was nothing at Matura, I moved it there. If the term is also used in other places, the page can be moved back and a disambiguation page put at Matura. Having that page empty is not sensible... -- Oliver P. 14:20 26 May 2003 (UTC)
- Sweden abolished the special examinations of the secondary education in the 1960s. Until that time it was refered to as [Secondary education in Denmark]], Secondary education in the United States. --TuukkaH 09:15, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
Also, you don't have to "pass a test" to enter the gymnasium. Your primary school teacher just has to declare you fit for it. --dllu 02:08, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Actually I did have to pass a test to get into gymnasium. (Look at Just a bit of Information on this page.) You have to get a high enough score on your CITO test. You can only go to gymnasium if your teachers give you VWO advice and you score above 545. (The maximum score being 550.)
Paleoblues--Paleoblues (talk) 17:36, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
But if he doesn't declare you fit for it, you have to pass a test. 62.66.189.118 15:56, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
No, for the test that all primary schools in the Netherlands do (the CITO) you have to get above 545 and get VWO advice.
Paleoblues--Paleoblues--Paleoblues (talk) 18:19, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Contents |
[edit] Lycée, liceum, grammar school, etc.
Are there any significant differences between the Gymnasium and the above terms used in other countries? If it's simply a difference of terminology for a selective secondary school with a university-preparatory, humanistic course of study generally concluded with an all-important exam, then I would suggest we combine all the above into one article that might also embrace, for example, magnet schools in the US, and other innovations in countries where there is some resistance to selectivity. --ProhibitOnions 13:21, 2005 May 22 (UTC)
Polish Gimnazjum, is not really a Gymnasium - it is a type of middle school, allowing to enter liceum or technikum. exe 09:25, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] High school
I thought that these schools were usually referred to as "high school" in English. Is there much difference anyway? Looking at the high school article, the term means many slightly different types of schools, many of which seem same as some in this article. Also, I don't know about other countries, but at least in Finland studying Greek or Latin is not normal in these schools. FWIW, the common translation to English in use in Finland is "high school" (sometimes "upper secondary school"). If there's no clear-cut difference, then maybe these articles should be merged? Note that upper secondary school redirects to high school, and even though the article says that the term refers to compulsory education, Japanese "high schools" are included and they certainly are not compulsory. AFAIK the Japanese and Finnish systems are almost the same, and I can't see why on earth they are in separate articles. 130.233.22.111 00:19, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
I believe that the best international term for gymnasium would be 'prepatory school', they have them in the US too, these schools are specifically designed to get childeren an education they need to join university. Wouter Zantinge
[edit] Links
I think it would be better if in the list of countries the liks were leading not to the countries' articles, but to the education articles (e.g. Education in Greece). Alensha 23:35, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
I agree with that and did it for Greece! --Anastasios 14:04, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] German Bias
There is a German bias in the opening section, which gives details only relevant to German Gymnasia. Obviously, in other countries with Gymnasia such as the Netherlands and Czech Republic, these don't apply. --JamesTheNumberless 12:27, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] United States
I'm not sure about outside the states but, where I live, Gymnasium has always been used to refer to a room meant for physical education. I don't know how common that is but maybe it should be mentioned somewhere. In lower grades we would have a gym class where we would play sports and excersize. Until reading this article I never even considered thinking of an entire school as a Gymnasium.
There is a life outside the USA....believe it or not......
[edit] different names in Germany
The text asserts that in Germany the terms "Realgymnasium", "Oberrealschule" and "Oberschule" are commonly used. I'm a German and visited a Gymnasium but have never heard of these names before. Any school that leads to the Abitur is called a "Gymnasium", no matter what kind of education (humanistic, mathematical, etc) is being taught there.--84.56.246.170 14:12, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
I second that, there is no "Realgymnasium", "Oberrealschule" or "Oberschule". Just Gymnasium. FreddyE 09:57, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
- While the first two aren't known to me either, the last one is a typical East-German term. Since POS (Polytechnische Oberschule) is the equivalent to a standard 10 years "Realschule" but EOS (Erweiterte Oberschule) being a Gymnasium, I wouldn't use Oberschule as an equivalent for Gymnasium. --32X 22:53, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
I removed that part now, since its totally wrong. FreddyE 10:00, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Merge?
Should the "gymnasium (school)" article be merged into "secondary education" totally?
- Keep. There is too much detail to merge, especially considering the details about nearly 30 nations with gymnasium schools. Similarly, I would have separate articles for American "elementary school" versus "high school" due to the details about high school course curricula, football teams, and clubs in the high-school culture, versus the details about recess and playgrounds at many American elementary schools. Also, each article could list famous schools in the category, such as "Hollywood High School" (in California) or "Clear Lake High School" (in Houston) by keeping the extensive details in separate articles.
[edit] Brazil
The line about Brazil seems peculiar. E.g. what does recurses mean? --Etxrge 11:17, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Just a bit of information.
I live in the Netherlands and go to the Vossius Gymnasium (one of the four in Amsterdam, Barlaeus, Ignatius & the 4e Gymnasium). I am in the first class and thought it might have some meaning to you if I would name the subjects we get.
Subjects 1st class Vossisu Gymnasium:
Latin - Greek - Geography - French - Informatica (Computers) - Biology - Mathematics - Technique - Art - PE - English - Dutch - Homework Class (Semi Optional, Optional) - Learning Class (Teaches us how to handle are homework and how High School works.) - Extra French (Optional) - Extra Latin (Optional) - Help French (Semi Optional) - Help Latin (Semi Optional) - Help Dutch (Semi Optional) - History - Culture History
Paleoblues--Paleoblues (talk) 17:30, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Not only preparing for studies in sweden
This article says that a gymnasium is preparing for university studies. For sweden, at least, this is far from true. There are several "programs" that every student is able to choose among, and some of these (more specifically, the natural science program, the social studies program and partly the technical program) are indeed "study preparing".
Though there are a lot of other programs, focused on getting a job, as soon as you graduate. For example there is a building program, a vehicle program, a cook program, etc. This is just a natural sequel to primary school. Some choose to do a lot of studies, others choose to go for a job directly.. Is this the same in other countries in europe too, or is it only sweden with this kind of system. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.211.81.151 (talk) 21:14, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Germany
I'm confused; the article states that a gymnasium is essentially analogous to a preparatory school and that the former are common throughout Germany, yet Article 7, Section 6 of the German constitution explicitly abolishes the latter.[1] Jdtapaboc (talk) 20:15, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
- It's an odd translation to the American ear -- "prep school" always means "college prep school" in America -- but I'm not sure what phrase would be better: preschool, maybe, except that preschool conjures up four year olds, and this rule is about seven year olds. The banned "prep schools" (Vorschule) were expensive private elementary schools from before the first world war. They featured an intensive academic program and were designed to give wealthy kids an advantage in admission to a gymnasium (not to university). The rule relates to the "segregation of pupils according to the means of their parents" clause above it. Basically, it's intended to ensure that all children in Germany have the same educational opportunities for the first four years. WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:31, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] "pubils" vs "students"
I suppose this article was at least in part written by non-native speakers of English. I am also not a native speaker, but my experience is that the term "pupils" is most commonly used in the context of primary education (elementary school or even kindergarten), wheras the term "students" is used in the context of secondary education and beyond. Is this perception correct, or perhaps limited to American English? Anyway, if "pupils" is not the appropriate word for students at a gymnasium, it should be replaced with "students". --80.145.115.207 (talk) 15:48, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
I think I can explain this: Its a translation problem I think. In german we only use the word "Schueler" for both instances. "students" is a false friend to the german word "Studenten" (wich means people who go to university). FreddyE (talk) 08:35, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
- The word pupil is not much used in modern American English. It feels somewhat archaic and perhaps a bit formal, although it is not so old as to have completely fallen out of use. Pupil is not wrong: it is uncommon. Unlike the German word, anyone who attends any school is correctly called a student in English. A musician teaching a three-year-old child will refer to that child as a student. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:41, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
