User talk:Guido den Broeder/Archive MECFS

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Improving CFS/ME Article

Hi, I've noticed you recently made a contribution or regularly contribute to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. I recently nominated it as the Wikipedia:Improvement Drive. I feel that it needs urgent improvement, and if you agree please vote at the Improvement Drive project page. Thanks! Thedreamdied 02:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Done!--Guido den Broeder 01:13, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Additional info

Hi. What citations do you have that a treadmill test or "double bike" test can demonstrate if a patient has been cured of CFS? What methodologies and metrics do these tests use? Thanks. --- Taroaldo 01:45, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi Taroaldo, one of the essential aspects of CFS is that patients recover very slowly. This has been tested and known since the 1950's. It can be recorded by e.g. repeating an exercise test after 24 hours; CFS patients will do much more poorly than on the first test. If not, than they do not or no longer have CFS. The double bike test is now standard practice in the CFS Research Center in Amsterdam. Validation research is presently carried out, and no doubt a publication will follow soon.

Related literature:

  • Paul L, Wood L, Behan WMH, Maclaren WM. Demonstration of delayed recovery from fatiguing exercise in chronic fatigue syndrome. European Journal of Neurology 1999;6(1):63-69.
  • Whistler T, Jones JF, Unger ER, Vernon SD. Exercise responsive genes measured in peripheral blood of women with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and matched control subjects. BMC Physiology 2005;5(1):5-.
  • Jammes Y, Steinberg JG, Mambrini O, Bregeon F, Delliaux S. Chronic fatigue syndrome: assessment of increased oxidative stress and altered muscle excitability in response to incremental exercise. Journal of Internal Medicine 2005;257(3):299-310.

Regards, Guido den Broeder 08:43, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


Hi Guido. Thank you for the references. I will read them as soon as I can. I have not been able to find a definition of the "double bike" test. Would you have a brief description of how this test is conducted? Thanks. --- Taroaldo 19:35, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I just had this test myself. :)
It consists of two bicycle runs, the second 24 hours after the first. Measured are a.o. heart function and breath (O2 and CO2). You are cycling at a regular speed while the resistance is gradually increased until you can go no further (not really important when exactly, as long as you do enough to generate sufficient data). One of the things that are determined is your anaerobic threshold. Mine was zero, both times ... Guido den Broeder 00:46, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi Guido ... you stated that your "anaerobic threshold" was zero; what exactly does that mean? - Tekaphor 03:18, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

That means, that I am constantly producing lactic acid. Guido den Broeder 10:23, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

The historic basis of myalgic encephalomyelitis

ME is essentially a vasculitis. It was defined as such by the Harvard neurologist Charles Poser, Hyde believes this based on SPECT and autopsy, so does Spence and many, many others. Children did die at Akureyri, they were autopsied. The same happened with one death in Newcastle of an ME patient. ALL had vascular defects.

I don't intend to get involved in the debate but you seem such a decent person I thought I'd pass on these references in case you didn't know them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.108.100.99 (talk) 20:47, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I have these references, as well as Byron Hyde's 1992 book. Guido den Broeder 20:57, 8 October 2007 (UTC)


Excellent!!! I have just been put on midodrine. I feel ten years younger- amazing drug. BUT of course what is right for me may not be right for someone else. Everyone is different. Something Byron knows, very, very well. My own physician is more local than Canada I should add. I wish you luck with wikipedia. It is indeed very, very maoist. I have no time for it really. Yes I did nearly die climbing in the Tien Shan etc. Myalgic EncephalomyelITIS. It is a vascular problem.

88.108.25.209 15:19, 9 October 2007 (UTC)alpinist

Hi Guido, good work on the recent contributions, especially regarding the controversial history. - Tekaphor 10:37, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Raggedy Ann Syndrome

The reference you provided for the term "Raggedy Ann Syndrome" was broken. I could not find a direct reference to Dr Cheney on PubMed. Failing Hyde, is there any other source that we could use to document this archaic term? JFW | T@lk 20:55, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I can't remember giving this reference, but there is a chapter(?) titled thus in Hilary Johnson, "Osler's Web: Inside the Labyrinth of the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome Epidemic", ISBN 0595348742 [1]. Guido den Broeder 21:19, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. Have a page number, so we can actually cite this? JFW | T@lk 11:56, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Glad to be of help. Follow the link: pages 24-38. Guido den Broeder 12:05, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

ME/CFS

Hi Guido, I am interested in any references you might have on 'The immune system acts like there is ongoing inflammation'. The essential fatty acid work i recently added to Immune Dysfunction discussion , supports this and I want now to look more closely at immune system findings. Regards Jagra 09:56, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Anti-oxidants

Hi Guido, a certain editor is reverting edits regarding anti-oxidants in CFS on spurious grounds. Firstly as unreliable source here which I had overturned on the WP RSN <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Lupin/navpop.css&action=raw&ctype=text/css&dontcountme=s">ine_Review here, and now as Fringe theory, which I sure could be easily overturned, as the hypothesis is and in some cases has been tested. Rather than continue his edit war I have posted a Discussion on anti-oxidants and seek a consensus on the Talk page for an replacement section. Jagra 03:23, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

ME/CFS Wikiproject

Are you in any condition right now to help set up a wikiproject? The temporary home is here. One question is what name to give it. At the moment of the proposed names, I'm actually leaning towards Post-Infectious Project (suggested by Jagra) as that would give us clearer claim to illnesses that may be special, well-identified cases or subtypes of ME. -- Strangelv (talk) 18:59, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi Strangelv, I'm afraid not. My health is very poor at the moment. Guido den Broeder (talk) 19:50, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.