Talk:Guitar tunings

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[edit] How to read tunings

I am new to guitar, but I do know a little. I know that guitar tuning is E A D G B E, going from sixth to first, and that the 1st string is above middle C.i think an a chord does not make sence. yeah so if the a is playe don all strings and stuff I am confused by reading the way the list of tunings are written. I don't undestand the use of capital letters as aposed to lower case, and I also don't understand the various notations next to some notes (what is with the ['], ["], [#] and the various numbers?). I know that there are sharps and flats, sharps being 1/2 step above, flats being a 1/2 step below. What I am getting at is there should be a standard way of simply writing the various tunings, and that simple notation should be at the top of the article telling laymen (or those with a basic understanding of music) how to read the tunings. It would also be helpful to link to other articles about the basics of music (like articles detailing exactly what a major, minor, step, 1/2 step, legato, arpegios, flats, sharps, etc. mean). The mathematics behind guitar music should also be noted, in essence the science behind what makes a guitar work, if only a short summary. If you can't help with doing these things, but do know someone who can, get the word out, or let me know what I should do to get this request for help out there so someone can help clarify this article.Will 19:59, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

You're right. There should have been more links to explain some of the terms used, as not everyone will understand them. The questions you ask are all answered in the article note, and I've mentioned that on the page, as well as linking some other terms to their own articles. (Mark, 23 April 06)

[edit] Removed

"José González is an artist known to use this tuning." (this was in reference to the Renaissance lute tuning E A D F# B E)

I removed the above entry as ALL classical guitarists use that tuning whenever it is called for in the score, not only the above named Mr Gonzales. If the author of that contribution feels that Jose Gonzales' use of this tuning throughout his repertoire is noteworthy, then it should be noted in the appropriate section: Artists noted for their use of alternate tunings. (Mark 10 May 2006)


[edit] Artists noted for their use of alternate tunings

This should be ordered alphabetically by artists' surnames, not given names (e.g. Steven Malkmus under M rather than S etc.). FrFintonStack 17:27, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Two years later, done. JSC ltd (talk) 16:45, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Following sentence does not impress me

This can also be tuned down to DGDGGD. A sort of "cheaters 12" tuning, it allows for easy rhythm playing, and is it sonds cool while playing leads. -Iopq 05:50, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] List of guitarists that use alternate tuning extremely incomplete

Many popular guitarists are missing from this list and to complete and maintain a list would be a whole project in itself. I think it should be removed. --Me2NiK 02:10, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed - Mark 18/07/06
Yes, including such a section is ludicrous. RichardJ Christie 08:45, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Only guitarists known for pioneering, developing, or popularizing an alternate tuning should be recognized.
Agreed, the list is too long and too difficult to moderate. It should be removed. Strobilus 12:10, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, I've made the list easier to view and use by alphabetizing it and putting it into columns. I added a couple names, and deleted a couple names. Including such a list is problematic, I agree, and as difficult to moderate as any list of "Notable fill-in-the-blank-brand-of-guitar players," yet I see a certain legitimacy in it. If nothing else, it provides users with a starting point to hear how various tunings sound. I could imagine a more effective system, however, where the tunings are given example songs or musicians, rather than simply listing a bunch of artists devoid of further information about what tuning in particular they are associated with. Some individual musicians' pages detail the tuning(s) they use, and that is useful. JSC ltd (talk) 17:04, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Obvious Error

"When the guitar is strummed with all strings open (as sometimes happens momentarily during difficult chord changes in frenetic passages of modern songs) it plays a tolerable E minor seven add eleven chord (Em7add11)"

No. An A11 is played. Check any book on guitar chords, such as "De Ongeloof'lijke Akkoorden Vinder voor de gitarist" from Rogers Music Holland b.v.


Thus, I changed it 82.176.202.214 22:10, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Why do you feel that it's more correct to call it A11? As A11 it has no third (C#) - and also it would be in second inversion. With no third how can you know if it's A11 or Am11? As Em7 add 11, all required notes are present and also it's in root position, based on the low 6th string E.
It really depends on which string we choose to be the root. If we chose G as the root, it would be G6/9 (GBDAE) - but it makes more sense to have string 6 as the root. I don't have that book so I did a check on some sites but I couldn't find any showing the open strings as A11. Do you know any? I found some calling it Em7add11, such as:

http://www.guitartips.addr.com/tip70.html Mark 18/07/06

I base myself upon a professional work on guitar chords, and I trust their judgement. Then, to double-check the claim, the book "Complete Guitar Facts" also names this chord A11/ 82.176.202.214 18:53, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
Can you explain why they are calling it A11 rather than Em7 add11? It's not enough just to change it because of what that book says. You need to give reasons too. At least put in the chord members of the A11 chord. The previous chord had the chord members included (1,4,b7,3,5,1) showing clearly why it was a root position Emin7 add 11. You've removed them but you haven't replaced them yet with the new notes. So your reference shows nothing of the chord's structure. Please give reasons or include those chord members so people can decide whether your choice is justified or not and change it accordingly.
Here's another page that shows it as Em7 add 11.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Guitar:Chord_Reference - Mark 20/July/06

[edit] One Octave Lower Tuning

Has anyone experience with this in a conventional electric guitar? I discovered it can allows you a such sensitive touch, but it seems impossible to make chords sounds good. - Anonymous Post

---

I was wondering if anyone knew of this particular tunings name? D-A-F-C-G-D I'm going to just go for calling it one step lower and adding it in under the rock tunings, with Killing Joke as one band in particular (in my experience) and some mention of it being used in several Beatles songs, though that is unverified by me currently.Fraterm 01:17, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

For the record, most deviations from standard tuning on Beatles records stem from alterations in recording speed or the use of a capo rather than from tuning the guitars differently. The only exception is Lennon's fingerpicked Gretsch 6120 on "Rain," which is in open G. See The Beatles As Musicians by Walter Everett. It's a great read for any music theory nerds out there! JSC ltd (talk) 17:14, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
The two exceptions are "Rain," and "Dear Prudence," where both Lennon's Casino and Harrison's borrowed Les Paul are both in Dropped D. And an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope. The three exceptions are…. JSC ltd (talk) 14:01, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nashville tuning

Pedal steel guitarists seem to use the phrase Nashville tuning to mean the E9 tuning which is fairly standard for the far neck of a twin-neck instrument. However, this article uses the phrase Nashville tuning to mean a guitar strung with only the high strings of a 12-string guitar set. This is known as "Nashville tuning" when the strings are in standard tuning. Is this documented anywhere?

Yes, I recall an issue of Guitar Player mentioning it regarding one of the guitar parts of a Pink Floyd song (maybe "Wish You Were Here"). Both tunings are referred to as "Nashville tuning;" the context of the discussion should tell you whether a standard guitar or a pedal steel guitar is the object. JSC ltd (talk) 16:53, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

One slight problem with this phrasing (I'm a twelve-string player both acoustic and electric): There are at least three 12-string tunings that might be classified as standard. The traditional tuning is down two frets, with octave secondary strings E-G (well, tuned D-F actually) and unison B (tuned A) and top E (tuned D). The more modern acoustic tuning is concert pitch, with octave secondary strings E-G and unison B and top E; I use this for both acoustic and electric. However many electric 12-string players tune to concert with unison G. This isn't as easy on an acoustic guitar, as you normally have a fixed bridge compensator, but most electric twelves have individually adjustable bridge compensation and can cope (and also can cope with swapping between solid and wound primary G and even D strings). For my money the brightness of the octave G is the very soul of the twelve, but you do break it occasionally tuning it 3 frets higher than the normal top E, and the octave G tunings put the tone break right in the middle of most lead boxes. Andrewa 22:50, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The 'artists that use alternative tunings' list was pish

...So, I've replaced it with a new list in which notable songs are listed by the tuning. I think doing it this way is much better, because the list of artists there was before told people absolutely nothing, wheras this should give people a decent idea of what a tuning can do.

If anyone can add to it, please do.Unreadablecharacters 11:48, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what happened to this list, but it's a good idea and I'm considering re-incorporating it and replacing the current list. JSC ltd (talk) 17:16, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Doesn't really show how to tune

I arrived at this page in the hope of showing a child how to tune a guitar, but it doesn't have simple instructions, and we really don't understand much of what is written. If this isn't the guitar tuning instructions page, a link to it, or link to simple instructions would be good. Thanks

Someone added the text:
See how to tune a guitar if you've just started to play a guitar.
to the article --88.115.171.235 11:42, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Death has been added

on the subject of One Step Lower. thought it was important to add since heavy metal was only briefly mentioned. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hollow181 (talk • contribs) 17:02, 27 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Guitarchords.jpg

I think the Image:Guitarchords.jpg image should be changed into regular wiki markup, it really stands out currently and is a bit ugly. --88.115.171.235 11:40, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

I added the badjpeg tag to the commons page; a PNG or SVG with transparency would be much better if wikifying is not feasible. --88.115.171.235 11:46, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed WikiProject Guitar Tunings

I propose a new WikiProject. Basically, it would focus on creating and improving articles related to guitar tuning. I shall Mezmerize you! My edits shall Mezmerize you!! My articles shall Mezmerize you!!! 01:38, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] pitch notation and tuning categories

1 The current article is a dog's breakfast of conficting notational systems. Some attempt has been made to adhere to Helmholtz pitch notation (EAdgbe') which I think is better in this context than scientific pitch notation (E2 A2 etc). Plain EADGBE etc is inadequate.

2 Since when did a style of music (eg Rock or classical) "own" a guitar tuning? To categorize in such a manner is nonsense. Many, if not most, various scordatura are found across stylistic boundaries. The tunings should simply listed and if required add a "commonly heard in" column. RichardJ Christie 01:15, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This article needs to be renamed as

Guitar Tunings to better reflect its content. RichardJ Christie 01:06, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

All right. So moved. Prepare to be Mezmerized! :D 02:55, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NEEDS CLEANUP

The following are culled from the current article and have been grouped into two groups below. The guitar tuning is essentially the same system within each group, only the pitch is altered. I think the current section on rock tunings has become a bit of a joke and is making much too much of very little indeed. It has almost become an excuse, or a free forum, for metal-heads to list their favourite bands. Subject to feedback I propose to come back in a week or two and substantially prune the section so as to simply note that the use of some the systems can be extended by tuning the whole system up, or more usually down by up to a minor third.

  1. 4.1.1 Dropped D: D-A-d-g-b-e'
  2. 4.1.3 Dropped C♯ or Dropped Db: C♯-G♯-c♯-f♯-a♯-e♯'
  3. 4.1.4 Dropped C: C-G-c-f-a-d'
  4. 4.1.7 Dropped B: Bˌ-F♯-B-e-g♯-c♯' or Bˌ-G♭-B-e-a♭-d♭'
  5. 4.1.12 Dropped A: Aˌ-E-A-d-f♯-b or Aˌ-A-d-g-b-e'
  6. 4.1.9 Drop B♭ Tuning: B♭ˌ-F-B♭-E♭-G-C or B♭ˌ-E♭-A♭-D♭-F-B♭


Standard

  1. 4.1.5 C Tuning: C-F-B♭-e♭-g-c'
  2. 4.1.6 C♯ Tuning: C♯-F♯-B-e-g♯-c♯'
  3. 4.1.14 E♭ Tuning: E♭-A♭-d♭-g♭-b♭-e♭'
  4. 4.1.15 One Step Lower: D-G-c-f-a-d'

RichardJ Christie 04:23, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I agree with you. I'll rewrite it.I shall Mezmerize you! My edits shall Mezmerize you!! My articles shall Mezmerize you!!! 02:49, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What about alto tuning and so on

What about including tuning for Soprano Guitar, Alto Guitar, Treble Guitar, Terz Guitar, Prime Guitar, Bass Guitar, Baritone Guitar, and Contra Guitar? See http://www.hago.org.uk/faqs/tuning.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.165.73.141 (talk) 09:22, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, only two of those have articles, and one already has an article on how to tune it. But with the Baritone Guitar, feel free to write an article on how to tune it. Prepare to be Mezmerized! 20:59, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] drop a#/bb....

Is not on the list. Breaking Benjamin uses it, in two of there biggest hits. If we find more significant bands/songs played, it should definitely be included. I use that tuning all the time, with 10 gauges too. 66.57.230.172 03:42, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, its just not notable enough. Anyway, there used to be a huge list of tunings, and when I cleaned it up, I took out the Drop A#/Bb part.Prepare to be Mezmerized! :D 21:24, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ostrich Guitar

What about Lou Reed's ostrich guitar? Without that where would Sonic Youth be?85.134.161.28 10:35, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Who knows? But Sonic Youth has used well over 100 alternate tunings. :|

Anyway, feel free to write an article on it, but if youre wondering why it isnt listed, its because only misc. tunings with articles are listed. Prepare to be Mezmerized! :D 02:54, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] More of the same again

Irrelevance is creeping back into the article with addition of E flat and F tunings. These are not tunings distinct from standard. To accept them as so is to accept absolute pitch designation and the logical end point of that is to have A=440Hz tunings, A=444Hz tuning etc. Remember that "standard" pitch has risen considerably over the past 200 years. Any tuning's pitch can be varied within reason a semitone or two, this doesn't alter the tuning system or interval arrangement, the tuning syatem remains the same. I believe there is comment somewhere in article to cover this so I propose to remove the two entries outlined above. RichardJ Christie (talk) 04:53, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

You can get rid of the F tuning. But the E flat tuning should stay because its notable (look how many bands have used it!). Also, its impossible to play an E♭ on the low E string if its tuned to E. Prepare to be Mezmerized! :D 01:14, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

That performers use sharper or lower pitches can and should be noted in a section on pitch variance of standard (and other) tunings. It doesn't matter how many have used certain pitches, it's best not to get into judgments over which is popular enough to qualify for inclusion, RichardJ Christie (talk) 12:50, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
"It doesn't matter how many have used certain pitches, it's best not to get into judgments over which is popular enough to qualify for inclusion" Good point.

But as said earlier, its impossible to play a low E flat on a string tuned to E, isnt it? It seems to me that you believe that E flat=E natural when they are different (sorry if I come across as uncivil here; I dont intend to be uncivil). Prepare to be Mezmerized! :D 20:30, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I obviously haven't made the point clearly enough. The tuning system is the same:
Six strings from 6th to 1st tuned thus: Fourth, fourth, fourth, maj3rd, fourth.
The "pitch" given to each frequency is subjective. For example, what is a'??? It can range from approx 430Hz to 460Hz. One persons flat c is another's sharp b. Modern orchestral instruments are pitched considerably higher than those of a century ago. Being absolute "E flat doesn't equal E" is a nonsense. RichardJ Christie (talk) 11:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Who's meshuggah here??!?

"F Tuning F-A#-D#-G#-C#-F#-A#-D# 8 String Tuning
Meshuggah tuning on Rational Gaze,"

Huh? -- megA (talk) 15:52, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Its gone now. Prepare to be Mezmerized! :D 01:13, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Well, you never know... -- megA (talk) 10:36, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A Left Out Tuning

While reading this article I noticed a brief mention of Black Sabbath while talking about a tuning that is a half step flat from standard. While this is true for the Dio albums and some on the reunion album, the tuning that realy definded their sound, and thus the sound of metal, is one and one half steps flat from standard. This tuning is on all of the Ozzy albums except the first two yet there is no mention of this tuning anywhere in this article. Why is that, it is an important part of musical history. Is Mr. Iommy the only one on the planet who ever used this tuning? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.130.218.61 (talk) 23:55, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Dropped Tunings

I think each dropped tuning should be added to their standard tuning counterpart (e.g. Drop C with D Standard, Drop B with C# standard, etc.). Emmure 89 (talk) 02:48, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Octaves?

Does anyone else think the octave number (using Scientific pitch notation) should be added? For many of the tunings, it seems somewhat ambiguous which octave to tune to. Mauvila (talk) 20:41, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] More Tuning

Is there a reason nobody has made mention of EABEBE tuning yet? It is heavily employed by Jars of Clay, especially in their earlier work. I saw EABEAE, but not EABEBE. It is an open E sort of chord, some suspended stuff in there. Anyway, thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by AUBeastmaster (talk • contribs) 16:57, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] What about a separate page with a list of musicians who employ open tuning?

Yes, What about a separate page with a list of musicians who employ open tuning?!! I mean, it would be much neater and would only take a small redirect. This way, people could look up and down say, three rows that are alphabetized. Just a thought. --leahtwosaints (talk) 11:06, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Need references for bands using tunings

A lot of tunings here, especially in the Rock Tunings section, claim that they are used by certain bands or guitarists or on certain songs, but there is no indication of where this info comes from. — Gwalla | Talk 17:49, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] microtonal tunings

this article should have stuff about microtonal tunings. --217.43.207.25 (talk) 23:32, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Are there any microtonal tunings of guitar strings in common use? Tuning strings microtonally with standard fretting seems awkward. Alternate fretting patterns would seem to be outside of the scope of this article. — Gwalla | Talk 16:12, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] light strings?

I was just trying out the Open E tuning, and I saw that it recommends light gauge strings. In my opinion, this should be removed as well as wherever a recommendation for light gauge strings is found. First off, I'm using a set of heavier strings (11, 15, 22, 30, 42, 54) and I had no trouble tuning up to Open E. Secondly, a lot of people use heavier strings for slide because it sounds better.Hypershadow647 (talk) 03:57, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] tuning low requires the neck to be adjusted

IN the section about drop B tuning, it states that thicker strings must be used. This is correct, but it also says that the neck may require adjustment. However, this is rarely the case, as even though thicker strings are used, they are tuned LOWER, meaning that any increase of tension on the neck is minimal. If you were to put thick gauge strings on a guitar setup for standard tuning, and tune them to standard, then most definitely you would need to adjust the neck. Also, it fails to mention that intonation is what will need to be adjusted when using thicker strings. Also, saying it is harder to tune below c on a "non baritone" guitar is "hard". It is not hard, what's hard about getting a thicker set of strings. Also, baritone guitar refers to how the guitar is tuned, and is not in itself a reference to scale length, although in practice if a baritone guitar is mentioned, it generally does mean longer scale length than 25 1/2" or whatever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.46.243.238 (talk) 15:10, 12 June 2008 (UTC)