Talk:Groton, Connecticut

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WikiProject Connecticut
 This article is part of WikiProject Connecticut, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Connecticut, United States on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page to join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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You left out New Suffolk, NY birthplace of the "Silent Service" out on the north fork of Long Island. It is also where Albert Einstein (who may have had something to do with Italian torpedo development in the early 1930's) posted his letter to President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, warning him about "fission" experiments in Europe and said to have started the "Manhattan Project". There is currently a marker to attest to the "Silent Service" origin today, though the post office is gone. A large facility was there "Electric Boat" and "Holland Torpedo Boat Co. 100 Broadway, N.Y." See New_Suffolk_large.jpg.

This whole entry should be revised, perhaps to reflect more of the history of the submarine and New Jersey math teacher, Mr. Holland's development of it.

Wouldn't that go better at New Suffolk, New York, submarine, and/or John Philip Holland? --wwoods 17:27, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Redirect

Why is Groton, Connecticut redirecting to Naval Submarine Base New London? Groton is the town. The base happens to be located in the town. Why do I have to view a page about the base in order to get to a page on the town, when the town is what I wanted to find information on when I searched "Groton, Connecticut"? Should New York City redirect to Metropolitan Museum of Art because it's located there? This is quite possibly the stupidest redirect I've seen on Wikipedia. It makes absolutely no sense. What's the reasoning behind it? Beginning 08:07, Aug 20, 2004 (UTC)

Better? When I found it, Groton, Connecticut was a stubby article about submarines, while the town info was at Groton (town), Connecticut. I expanded the former and eventually renamed it.
There's a lot of links to Groton, Connecticut that now need redirecting to NSB New London.
—wwoods 22:45, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I'll fix the links in return for your work. Thanks for resolving this. Sorry if I came off snappy before, but it just made no sense to me. Beginning 23:26, Aug 20, 2004 (UTC)

Added comment on BRAC closure list - KMC

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:GrotonCTseal.jpg

Resolved. Fair use rationale provided. —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 17:05, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

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If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 07:43, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] merge from Groton (city), Connecticut

The City lies entirely within the town. The article to be merged has some stats, and not much more, with no reason to be expanded. All of that information would fit here quite nicely. This article would be stronger if it covered both the Town of Groton and the City within it. Jd2718 18:42, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

  • Merge & redirect - The city is part of the town, even though independently chartered and the two articles are small enough that they would fit together nicely. When they are expanded sufficiently, they can be re-split in the future. —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 18:49, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Do not merge - The city and the town are separate political entities. There are multiple communities contained inside towns in the New England and Middle Atlantic states and in general keeping the political entities separate is important to avoid confusion. Our focus should be on where we should place the bulk of the information contained in the articles. Which belongs with the town and which with the city. Whether the stats should be included in the city or town article depends on how the Census department has reported them. It appears that these stats are reported for both the town at large and many of the various sub-entities (such as Poquonock Bridge and the city article and others). This suggests that the city stats belong where they are, in the articles about the city, not the town. NoSeptember 19:09, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - Connecticut's cities and towns are not arranged like those in the rest of the northeast. In the Middle Atlantic in particular NoSeptember's comments would be completely on target, but not in Connecticut. The entire state is completely divided into 169 discrete towns. The cities and boroughs reside within these towns. In most cases, eg New Haven, the city and town are identical. The only confusion we could cause would be by maintaining separate articles: someone searching for Groton, without both pieces in front of them, might pull up the wrong information. Jd2718 19:19, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - The fact that the city and town are not coextensive is why the articles should not be merged. Just because the names and location are so close and overlapping as to be confusing to a reader is no reason to merge two non-equal political entities into one article. We can post prominent dab links to solve the issue of helping people find the right article they are looking for. NoSeptember 20:11, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
  • The New England town article explains this better than I can, but the fact is that the city is part of the town and that the town is the superior political entity. It might help you to think of the city as a special taxation district of the larger town with a political apparatus to support that infrastructure. Yes, welcome to Connecticut where we do things differently from everywhere else; our towns are just the beginning! —Elipongo (Talk contribs) 21:46, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
  • What makes you think I don't understand that the city is part of the town? Above I mentioned that other subdivisions (such as Poquonock Bridge) should also not be merged. It appears that the only real reason this merge is requested is because of the concern of name confusion, or else all the other subdivisions would be merged as well. Having stats for the city is good, but it shouldn't be in the town article any more than the stats of the other subdivisions should be in the town article. Just write a good explanation at the top of the city article, so that there is no confusion between the city and the town. NoSeptember 22:11, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Your reference to "Middle Atlantic" indicates some confusion. Further, the Poquonock Bridge article is an embarrassment - census info written in paragraph form (in clumsy English). The article does not even identify what town Poquonock Bridge is in. Jd2718 19:45, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
  • My apologies for misunderstanding you. Since you mention of CT's CDPs, I myself would support a merge of most of the members of Category:Census-designated places in Connecticut into their parent towns. A few, such as Rockville and Willimantic are substantial enough to be independent articles, but most are ignored stubs that would have more chance of development if merged into their parent towns. It may not be a bad idea to suspend this particular debate and bring up the broader one at WikiProject Connecticut—Elipongo (Talk contribs) 02:10, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment Wikipedia does have neighborhood articles, e.g. Westville and Fair Haven in New Haven. The article on the City of Groton can be thought of in the same way. At present, though, there is not much information in both articles such that a split is needed. No opinion on whether to merge or not. --Polaron | Talk 23:25, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Do not merge Came across this discussion late. The situation is analogous to towns in New Hampshire and Maine which have separate articles for census-designated places within them. (See, for example, Bristol, New Hampshire and Bristol (CDP), New Hampshire.) This is a case where one entity (the city) is entirely within the other (the town), but it's useful for Census-reporting at a minimum to keep both articles. (By the way, I changed the opening to the article, because I don't think the bit about "not being conterminous" means what the author intended it to mean.) Ken Gallager 17:20, 8 August 2007 (UTC)