Talk:Groin vault

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[edit] Query

What is the English term for this type of vault? --Ghirla -трёп- 18:33, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

it is a groin vault. Anlace 18:41, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Examples

I think we should define a criteria for inclusion in the examples paragraph, currently it's open for everyman and his dog to add to this list his local groin vault. I suggest notablility criteria for inclusion. i.e. the oldest by material, widest, tallest, unusually interesting for a specific reason, etc.etc. --Mcginnly | Natter 13:57, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

i dont think the widest, tallest etc really make a lot of sense as the main criteria, although they might weigh in. i would propose the following:
  • world geographical distribution (we probably only need one from Russia)
    • No, Too numerous. --Mcginnly | Natter 18:16, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
      • no one is talking about listing every groin vault. this is an international encyclopaedia and we must strive for geographic diversity. two from russia is one too many Anlace 19:53, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
  • representation of different types of structure (eg monastery, baths, cathedral, castle)
    • Yes, Ok with this in principle.--Mcginnly | Natter 18:16, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
  • use of a building that has a Wikipedia article
    • No, Too numerous
      • no one is talking about listing every wikipedia article with a groin vault. this criterion should be a MINIMUM requirement. Anlace 19:53, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
  • emphasis upon older structures (although having one modern on from the u s mint is good. it also partly solves geographic representation from the americas)
    • Yes, I think this is valid.--Mcginnly | Natter 18:16, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
  • use of a building that is still extant and not in ruin
    • No,Too numerous--Mcginnly | Natter 18:16, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
      • again no one is talking about listing every extant. this should be a desireable but not essential criterion.
  • use of a building true to its architectural type
    • Not sure what this means?--Mcginnly | Natter 18:16, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
      • it means avoiding using buildings that have been extensively modified over time Anlace 19:53, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
  • use of a buiding that has a material role to the history of its locale
    • No too numerous - every locale then gets a plug regardless of whether the vault is significant or not.--Mcginnly | Natter 18:16, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
      • no one is talking about listing every such building. this should be a minimum requirement and should exceed a role in history that is more than of parochial interest Anlace 19:53, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
  • use of a building that has an existing reference source in this article or has a reference that can be advanced
    • No, too numerous - every groin vault we can reference isn't restrictive at all. --Mcginnly | Natter 18:16, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
  • use of a building that has an image on wikipedia (whether or not the image sits in Groin vault
    • No, too numerous. --Mcginnly | Natter 18:16, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
      • this should be of course a MINIMUM mandatory requirement. Anlace 19:53, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
  • groin vaults that have unusual dimensions or materials
    • Yes, sounds like notablility to me. --Mcginnly | Natter 18:16, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

there may be others. what are your thoughts Mcginnly|Natter ? regards Anlace 17:14, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I think List of buildings with groin vaults would be a pretty useless article and unless we seriously restrict the list in this article to say 10 max. important groin vaults by whatever criteria we agree on, then we'll have a runaway list on our hands. With that in mind I've commented on your list. --Mcginnly | Natter 18:16, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
  • This list should include no more than following exemplary buildings IMHO:

1. One famous thermae (Diocletian's or Caracala's)

2. Constantin's Basilica.

3. Speyer cathedral (typcal romanesque dome-groin vaults)

4. San Ambrogio in Milano (one of first examples of rib-enforced groin vault).

5. Choir of abbey churhc of St. Denis (first Gothic groin vault).

6. Chartres cathedral (first High Gothic groin vaults on a rectangle basis).

7. Several gothic cathedrals from other regions outside central France: one English (Cantenbury or Salisbury, I think, have groin vaults), one German (St. Margaret of Augsburg, I belive), one Italian (Milan cathedral), one Spanish (Toledo or Barcelona cathedral).

8. A cloister which has groin vaults of certain famous monastery (Franciscan monastery of Dubrovnik comes to mind).

9. One notable example of groin-vaulting from post-Gothic periods (can't think of anything worth mentioning here at the moment; groin vaulting went almost extinct in large-scale buildings after Gothic age).

IMHO it would be utterly pointless to create a special article with list of buildings with groin vaults. We would then have to make list of buildings with windows, list of buildings with doric columns, list of buildings with mansart roofs, etc., and similar articles which realy have no purpose beyond recapitulation of other articles. --Hierophant 19:31, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

  • hello. no one has suggested a separate article with a list. this discussion (i thought) is about the article section called ==Examples== regards. Anlace 19:53, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I've given some thought to the above. I think hierophants list is a good compromise because it assert notablility for all the examples and restricts the number. My suggestion is that we do away with the 'list' altogether and weave his examples into the body of the article, discussing the progression of the vault through history. What do you think? --Mcginnly | Natter 13:39, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Support. --Ghirla -трёп- 14:18, 1 December 2006 (UTC)