User talk:Green Giant/Archive 1

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Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Contents

January 2006

Welcome!

Hello, Green Giant, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome!  --Khoikhoi 03:26, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Much appreciate the welcome message :) Green Giant 16:40, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

City symbols

The list of city officials should remain. I put the CoA specifically because the city template has no provision for that.

Pizzadeliveryboy 00:23, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Have added on yr idea

Hi:

I have modified the infobox as per yr points. Any ideas on formatting are welcome.

Pizzadeliveryboy 00:56, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Done with formatting the seal

I used a diffent template or else I was messing with Kolkata/Bangalore pages too!!! Any ideas on formatting???

Pizzadeliveryboy 01:23, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Paris Page

Green Giant,

Ho ho ho. Thanks for your Paris page edit - and sorry that this "baptism" was reverted - this is a recurring problem there. I set that straight this morning; your edits are back in place.

Although "Paris" should normally be a much-frequented subject, its Wiki page has very few editors - only one in particular for the time being, and it is this lack of consensus that is responsible for the page's stagnation. Are you knowledgable on the subject? Even engaging in lively discussion about eventual improvements on its talk page would be much welcome and could be enough to get things going there. Anyhow, beinvenue : ) THEPROMENADER 10:33, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

My apologies for the Paris-page bedlam - the author who reverted your work is a bit of a stickler about protecting his opinions. Don't let this get you down though - things will be fine if we (wikipedians) keep pulling in the direction of reason and readablility. In any case that's what I'm pulling for there. Cheers! THEPROMENADER 21:04, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
Actually you are a godsend - I have been waiting since months for someone who a) knows enough about Paris to know what the *$%&*$ I'm going on about on the talk page and b) has the b*lls to stick around long enough to change anything. I've been commended for my 'trials' there but this is neither help, reason nor consensus - I can't tell you how much time and research I've wasted on proving the fact of my misgivings, and trying to spell them out in plain language! Thank you for finally arriving!
Today was important as a certain contributor's behaviour has been increasingly bold and bad - today's wholesale reverts flew in the face of both reason and consensus. There is little anyone can do against this sort of behaviour on Wiki, especially in subjects as particular to English readers as Paris is, and I am quite certain the person in question knows it. Thank you also for helping to overcome this.
Although I'm glad to finally have some help in the fight towards reason, I must stress that I always place reason first. If together we can determine a) what could be improved and b) prove the veracity of the information that would replace it, I think we can finally begin getting around to finally making some improvements to the article. What's more, this 'no consensus possible' deadlock broken and 'threat of revert' removed, perhaps contributors new and old (and the page's original creators) will return once again. So thanks on all counts. Now let's get to work!
THEPROMENADER 03:09, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
Paris should be a showcase article.
Hallelujiah! Now I must get to bed : ) THEPROMENADER 03:38, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Green Giant,

I just saw your Talk:Paris page addition this morning - you certainly do have your sources! If you have tried sorting out anything in the rest of the talk page you may have noticed that I also have been attempting to dissemble and disprove the "Paris is its 'aire urbaine' (which is a 'metropolitan area')" theory dominating the article as fact - but I haven't been able to in any few words. Could you give the 'Contested Content; POV' section a read-through when you have the time, and perhaps add notes on any sense/nonsense you see in it? I intended to make changes even today, but it would be nice to build some honest consensus first. This would also leave my 'pause time' free for other more less tedious chores : )

Thanks in advance, cheers,

THEPROMENADER 09:29, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

This is odd - did you forget to log in again? The user 81.64.90.173 just reverted the Paris page back to its "fifth or sixth, depending on the sources" economy phrasing - and placed Paris fifth in the ranking of the "world's largest Metropolitan area economies" in the "Paris economy" article. Perhaps you are not aware that this battle in ambiguity has been going on for the better part of a year now, and these reverts are exactly those Hardouin always makes - but always under his own name. What's odder is that the same user also made edits to other articles as well - If it was indeed you, don't forget to hit the "remember me" button next time you log in : ) THEPROMENADER 14:27, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
Forget the last message - Hardouin seems to have become a HalfMoonBay sock puppet. THEPROMENADER 15:03, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

I have to say yesterday's events and this morning's message ended by making me quite angry, so I'm happy for a break - I've got some photos to take in Wissous. Sources, Roman aqueducts, 'fun stuff' for me.

Please continue to correct and comment any and everything in the Paris Page - one cannot be bogged down by designs in distraction. I have a few maps to complete for the "Streets of Paris" Wikiproject, then I will be able to get around to making the improvements noted on the talk page. In the meantime If you see anything there that could use some refining or rephrasing, please do - thanks in advance.

Take care,

THEPROMENADER 07:14, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Yesterday I broke my own cardinal rule - keeping my sights on the central issue - and it is more than likely because of this that the Paris talk page is overflowing with new bush-beating banter. This won't be the case today.
It would be simpler if discussion would stick to existing reference works - Do you have a working e-mail registered at Wiki? I could forward you the complete Paris articles from the Encyclopedia Britannica 2006 and Encyclopedie Universalis. If you would like webpage references I would stick to "official" references such as the concerned Mairies, departments and région Île-de-France. (do a search for "metropolitan area" or "aire urbaine" somewhere in these - here or here- to see what priority this statistic has at present).
I have nothing against the word 'metroplitan area' or the 'aire urbaine' concept it represents - my proposed edits make this clear - , but if it is to be used it must be explained and used context, and as a reference to nothing outside the population, place of work and trade information collected within it. Anything outside this is non-factual. Damn, I think I just said it simply : )
THEPROMENADER 09:43, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
PS: Feel free to archive any or all of the above!
Green Giant,
I'm just about done with the Paris page corrections - shall we get about making a 'showcase article' anytime soon?
all the best,
THEPROMENADER 18:10, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Please check - there are some really unreadable sections in Mumbai now!!!

Pizzadeliveryboy 01:41, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Hello

I've been editing in Wikipedia for quite sometime now and am currently working on improving the Kargil War having added content backed with good references and in NPOV IMO. Since you've been editing some subcontinent content with a third party perspective I thought I'd request you in inputting anything in Wikipedia:Peer review/Kargil War/archive1. I've incorporated most of the suggestions from other editors. Plz take a look. Idleguy 10:33, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Changes vetted

I have vetted the changes - reverted some - modified some - kept some. Most of your changes resulted in moving from a passive to an active voice construction, which is good. But in some places they seemed out of place, so either modified them or reverted for lack of a better version.

Pizzadeliveryboy 16:11, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Re: Pakistan

Not a problem, I was just doing vandal patrol and just try to pick the most recent version that doesn't appear vandalized. I trust your knowledge of the subject. (ESkog)(Talk) 04:01, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Paris Consensus

I like the changes you made to your User page. I saw your detailed contribution to Talk:Paris - I'm not sure how much research you had to do, but thanks for that. Knowing something isn't right is one thing, but going through all the work to prove it is another - it is most likely for this that the Paris page remained unchanged for so long.

I've concluded the 'comparison of areas' section, and, in light of your message, added a very short 'apellation consensus' other. Please feel free to add to it.

Take care,

THEPROMENADER 07:52, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

PS: Cancel the 'apellation consensus' bit above - I've removed it to give your contribution time to breathe. I did find one 'eek' within though: - because only the Ile-de-France region is the metropolitan area - I see your meaning, and this is in favour of the Paris article becoming about something more 'Paris', but as this concerns mainly the Île-de-France I'll explain here. If you don't mind.
"Metropolitan area" is the best translation possible for "aire urbaine" - they are both statistical commuter belts. The Île-de-France is a 'région' with a very strong administrative boundries and a very imposing political makeup. They are two completely different things.
I wouldn't give too much weight to that 'metropolis' association - ony the name has anything in common with "metropolitan area", and the association has existed since before the idea of "aire urbaine" ever existed. If anything the website shows to what point Paris' neighbouring départements impose themselves as independant political entities: Any Paris project extending even just a little past its borders imparitively requires the involvment of the representative of the concerned departement. It is for this that the mayor of Paris had to take (as baggage, some would say), the representatives from Paris' closest departements and a representative for the Île-de-France region. The 'metropolis' project most likely involves Paris to the limits of its agglomeration - which extends into most all of the Île-de-France's eight departements, albeit only a smidgen into the four outer ones. It is for this that you don't see "aire urbiane" or "metropolitan area" in any official website - the term and even concept is unused and even ignored by politicians. The 'aire urbaine' (metoropolitan area) is simply not an aknowledged entity of any sort here. I hope I made this clear.
My misgivings with the Paris' article's use of "metropolitan area" in that it is used as an excuse to claim everything past Paris' agglomeration - even the entire Île-de-France region - as Paris itself. The logic used is this: If Paris' 'aire urbaine' limits are 'almost the same' as those of the Île-de-France, then there is no reason why we cannot speak of everything within the Île-de-France as belonging to the 'aire urbaine'. If everything within the 'aire urbaine' belongs to Pairs, then so does everything within the Île-de-France.
When you are reading about the "Paris metropolitan area" in the Paris article, three times out of four you are reading info on the Île-de-France. This will give you a good idea what the article will look like once we do give evrything its correct appellation. Have a look at the stagnated state of the Île-de-France (région) article to see where much of it should go. And please have a look at the fr:Paris article (and its talk page) to see how they treat the 'aire urbaine' : )
All this is horribly complicated to sort out, isn't it? I hope we do soon. I'm looking forward to having more time for contributing.
Cheers. THEPROMENADER 09:21, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the message. But LOL - I see that you're still mixing the Île-de-France and "aire urbaine" concepts. The "metropolitan area" template is actually correct in its content - it contains all the communes englobed in the latest (1999) INSEE definition of the 'aire urbaine'. One can question the template's presence in the Paris page - I have, and Thbz as well - as it makes much more 'noise' than its informative value.
Remember: to the template's authour, the 'aire urbaine' and 'metropolitan area' are one and the same. The template should actually be called "communes in the aire urbaine" and be linked to the aire urbaine article, but as a compromise we had to make do with the "metropolitan area" title linked to the 'aire urbaine' article. Perhaps you should put this back as it was? I do find amusing though that the introduction to the metropolitan area article you linked it to explains very clearly the extreme caution with which this title should be used, and the lack of seriousness of any comparisons between any two regions from different countries using this title. You could also have a look at Largest_European_metropolitan_areas for more lucidity on the matter.
I have perhaps forgotten to mention the Paris article's 'Paris is its metropolitan area' theme's most glaring illogic: there is a New York City and New York metropolitan area article; there is a London article and a Greater London article; but there is no Paris and Paris metropolitan area article. Why? THEPROMENADER

Paris Photo/Infobox

Could you perhaps take care of this? Your changes before were nice but there was a big white space above the photo - perhaps changing "clear:both" to "clear:right" in the spacer div will set things straight. I must fly and won't be back till late this afternoon so if you don't get to it first I can see to it then. Cheers! THEPROMENADER 10:30, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I just did it myself - acutally it was a bit more complicated than I thought as it was actually the template's code messing things up. All set now. THEPROMENADER 20:34, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Paris Population Density, etc

GG, Could you have a look to the population/density section of the Paris page? You seem to be knowledgable in such matters, and I am not completely sure about the veracity/validity/utility of the comparisons there. Thanks if you can find the time.

THEPROMENADER 22:38, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Can I ask for some input on the Paris page? Corrections were going fine but lately I've had less time - In my absence I noticed that "metropolitan area" has begun to sneak its way into the article once again. Corrections to this were met with reverts of course. I've also tried to shorten the infobox of its needless "metropolitan area" and use the space to add other more relevent and useful information - these are being reverted outright. I think, once again, truth and consensus are going to have to be made clear. THEPROMENADER 08:03, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

February 2006

Changed infobox

There's no point having an infobox if only one article uses it - each province plus Islamabad had their own infobox. So I've replaced the obsolete Template:Sind_infobox with a generic one for all provinces and territories. Green Giant 01:06, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I have made the Template:Sind infobox few months ago. Well, its good to have unique infobox for all provinces. I appreacite your efforts on desinging Template:Pakistan infobox.
User:M.Imran 11:45, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

The infoboxes for French cities

The reason why there is not a single template for French cities so far is because at first I didn't envision to make such a large scale work, and I thought I was gonna work only on one or two cities. Now of course there are many large French cities who have these templates, and so I have been thinking of creating a single template for all large French cities, template that could be re-usable in several articles. Unfortunately, so far I haven't done it due to the constant hostility and reversions from ThePromenader, who irks at the very mention of the word metropolitan area.

To be very honest, so far I have only seen you supporting him without ever calling him into question, so I don't know if you can be a neutral voice on this. However, if you have a look at Lille or Strasbourg articles for instance, and you look at the infoboxes there with a neutral and non-prejudiced mind, you can only admit that we need to distinguish neatly between city information and metropolitan area information, to avoid mixing otherwise extremely confusing figures and data.

At first I had made infoboxes like the one for New York City, dealing only with city information, and with only a mention of the metro area population, but then it became rapidly clear that due to the very complex situation in most French large cities, with distinct city and metro area structures, it was better to spell out things clearly, even if it meant making the infoboxes longer. In a place like Lille for example, the mayor is not the same person as the president of the urban community, and the former has less power than the latter. City and metro area administrations in Lille are intertwinned, and population, land area, density figures are different. This is not a unique case.

So if ThePromenader stops his uncompromising attitude (maybe he'll listen to you... he never listens to me), then I'll make a single unified template for large French cities, instead of having a different template for each city.

By the way, I see you are interested in South Asian things. There is a big error at the Mumbai infobox. This message is already long enough, but I will explain it to you later if you are interested. Hardouin 02:34, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I have read the above and replaced the original city/metro infobox until a new one is made. I'm not quite sure if this was the proper conclusion to your conversation but this is what I did. I listen to reason - and consensus rules. THEPROMENADER 10:08, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Green Giant,
Would it be at all possible to get this infobox discussion out of the way as soon as we can? It is basically the only 'factually intricate' thing remaining to fix before we can get to the much more easier (and pleasant !) task of making the Paris article read better and look good for 'peer review' presentation. As it stands, I sense that Hardouin will take your last night's conversation as 'consensus' - I would like to make this very clear if we can. If you could, please have a look at my updated version on the template's own page - the metropolitan area info is there, as well as other additions, shortening it and giving everything its proper importance and place. For the time being I put it back to its old version until we can reach a concrete consensus on this. Not to pressure you ; ) Thank you, and good night.
THEPROMENADER 00:56, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Mumbai infobox

About Mumbai infobox, the population figure, land area figure, and population density figure are for the metropolitan area, they are not for the municipality (city). A year ago I had proposed a more complete infobox, that included both city figures and metro area figures, to clearly disambiguate between both. You can see that infobox here. Figures in there are the correct ones. Unfortunately, user Nichap opposed this pretty much on the same ground as ThePromenader is opposing now, arguing that the infobox should only contain city information. So he deleted all metro area info.

End result: a few months later, some people replaced all city info with metro info (it seems they thought 11.9 million people was not high enough for Mumbai, so they replaced it with 18 million figure, which is the population of the whole metropolitan area), so now the table is screwed up, offering metro area figures and pretending they are city figures. That's why I came to the conclusion long ago that it is better, with most city infoboxes, to clearly and un-ambiguously include both city and metro area figures, so that it leaves no space for doubt, and in order to avoid misguided edits like what happened with Mumbai. Hardouin 03:03, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for saying that my idea for French city infoboxes is a good one. I wish ThePromenader were more reasonable. It's frustrating not to be able to argue things calmly and rationally with people. About Mumbai, you can use the infobox I proposed last year if you want. However, I let you do that. I don't want to upload the infobox in the Mumbai article myself, because Nichap would revert me right away. You'll probably have to talk with him. What I know for sure, is that if we leave the table as it is now, i.e. containing only city info, sooner or later someone will change the figures and replace them with metro area figures, because people simply can't believe that Mumbay (the municipality) has only 11.9 million people.
One last comment, the land area for Mumbai is not that small. After all it is more than 5 times larger than the city of Paris (excluding Bois de Boulogne and Bois de Vincennes). What's extraordinary is that they can pack 11.9 million people within that space. But then Mumbai has some of the highest densities in the world. I had started a list of the densest urban districts in the world a while ago, but then the task of referencing them all is so daunting that I never finished it. The list is still on my computer though. So far the densest district I have found is the Kwun Tong District of Hong Kong with 50,898 people per sq. km. in 2001. Some districts of Mumbai may beat that record. Hardouin 03:27, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Paris Rescue

You stepped in just at the right time yesterday - thanks. I haven't had time to read your edits yet but will do so later today. There have been few developments since - I did eliminate Hardouin's (rather sneaky) efforts to re-insert some of his original text, but I removed most of this again (and in the first place) because it was unreferencable - there exist no 2005 AU predictions, not even on the INSEE site, and his 'AU double-growth' phrase is just plain wrong. IMHO these aren't there for the facts themselves but more for the 'metropolitan area' chip-chip - but only facts are contestable. Let's hope this blows over soon so we can get to beautifying - but it is important that all things fact stick first. Oh, and someone should explain to Hardouin the proper use of 'on the other hand' - I left it in this time.

Thanks, take care,

THEPROMENADER 09:54, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Hello

Hello how do you feel about making a series of pages for each of the subdivision (tehsil?) of punjab (pakistan) i tried to and i have quite a bit of information about them, but i have no clue how the info box thing works and i really want them, can you help? id like the infobox to be basically the same as you historical regeons of pakistan one, except less boxes i suppose, just ones on population, area, pop desnsity... how do you feel about that? start on Attock District and so we can both work on it(if templates are avaliable for me to use).

cheers —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aarandir (talk • contribs) 23:15, February 12, 2006 (UTC)

still sleeping? well just start whenever your ready. if you want that is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Aarandir (talk • contribs) 22:56, February 13, 2006

Sections for Pakistan article

Great job on the work you put in on those sections you completed for the Pakistan article. I started going through the climate section. I set it up how I think it looks best, but since this is a wiki and it will probably be edited, oh well. Anyways, I added in some pictures of the Indus and the Thar. There were a couple more I found, but I think more than two in this section will be more than neccessary. It would bog down the article if we just loaded it with pictures. Nonetheless, I commented out the additional pictures I found, feel free to put in the others ones if you want if you feel it looks better. Both pictures of the Indus River looked great, yet the dilemma lies in choosing one. The other picture of the Thar desert is a satelite picture, so its less practical than the picture I left up there. Any how, keep up the great work. Pepsidrinka 17:18, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I have finished copyediting, reviewing, and adding pictures to the Climate, Wildlife, and Holidays sections. If you feel they are up to the level, please add them where you feel they belong. Pepsidrinka 21:02, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the article is at 50KB. From my various reading around WP, FA should be about 30-50 KB in size. Most of the FA on countries are about 40 or less, except China which has grown massively within the past 7 months (grown 20KB, currently at 61). Cleaning through the history sections should cut at least 5 KB (hopefully), and then I suggest we have it peer edited in order to get some outside viewpoints on anything else to fit. Pepsidrinka 21:09, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Hello. Perhaps you can review my work on the entire history section located in my sandbox. Besides you, no one else has commented on my changes to the ancient history section. I have personally sent a message to Siddiqui and I posted on the Pakistan talk page, and he, nor anyone else, has yet to make any comment. It really seems you and I are on the only active editors on this page. Pepsidrinka 19:02, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Paris Revert Bedlam Bis

Hello - are you around? I have again 'lost it' on the Paris page but I give up for now - things have gone much too far for tonight. Thirteen reverts (I think) and now there are again Île-de-France statistics masquerading as 'metropolitan area' ones, texts saying that tourism is not important for Paris - and this is what was reverted to. Both of our edits are gone in several places - but I can't exactly say what or where and I don't want to verify. The introduction I had cut down is now blown up again as an all-in-one-breath declaration insinuating the importance of Paris' metropolitan area. Could you just go and have a look at the facts of everything? It's all on the talk page. I thought we were almost there. Sorry for the mess.

THEPROMENADER 20:57, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Dear Green Giant, Walaikum Assalaam. Thank you for the link to the tutorial. I had read the other more detailed articles on editing and formatting, and struggled to remember all the information. Since printing out the tutorial you sent, I am having a happier time with articles!

I am grateful for the tip on using full names. Many Pakistanis use a shortened form of their full name, hence my hesitation. The clarity of Wikipedia is very welcome.

Nkosi Sikeleli Afrika!

Sincerely, —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zain Sadullah Khan (talk • contribs) 07:58, February 17, 2006 (UTC)

Pakistan

I have contributed to history section of Pakistan that have been removed by you. I think we should work together rather than play this game of reversions. I would appreciate that you do not revert my changes. I did not know you and your username Green Giant does not give indication of your nationality. I assumed that you were one of many who vandalize Islamic and Pakistani pages. So I am sorry if I reverted your changes. Please do not revert my changes to Pakistan page. Please discuss any objection that you may have. I am reverting back your reversions. Please indicate each and every line that you may find objectionable.

Siddiqui 01:29, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

You removed references used in the article without explaining why, especially since articles need citable references. The addition of a paragraph on Mehrgarh is not necessary because it should be a summary. Green Giant 01:34, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
Mehrgarh is very important site since predates Indus Valley Civilisation by about 3000 years. Clearly showing continuity of urban human civilization in Pakistan from 8000 BCE to present.
Siddiqui 01:38, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
Definitely Mehrgarh needs a mention but let the paragraph go into the History of Pakistan article. I'm still not happy with your removal of references, so I am reinserting them until you can explain why they are not needed. Note I am not changing your editions of the article. Green Giant 01:42, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
Firstly, The India page does not even mention one word about treatment of it's monorities and especially Gujarat genocide of Muslims. Then why should Pakistan page has a link to a site that is extremely critical of Pakistan's minorities. Indian will never allow one word about Gujarat genocide in India page. Secondly, the Indian deny Aryan invasion theory to claim themselves as the natives of South Asia. Clearly there was Aryan migration and settlement in India from Eurasia. They use the phrase like "Islamic invadors invaded India" while "Aryan settled in India". The whole Hindutva ideology is based on denying Aryan invasion and demonizing Islamic settlement.

Siddiqui 01:58, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Not all refrences should be glossy and positive about the subject of the article. However, having looked at both of the references, I can see your point, so I am removing them both. Green Giant 02:13, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Paris Talk

Green Giant, I've decided to take advantage of (and maintain) the Paris page's 'blocked' status to discuss and decide what should (or shouldn't) be changed there. Some wisdom from you there would be very welcome. I will also be contacting others knowledgable to see if they can help too.

Thanks,

THEPROMENADER 11:14, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Towns and Neiborhoods of Karachi

I created pages for most of the towns and neigborhoods of Karachi and categorized them. I hope you will contine to expand them. Please do not remove my summarized information about the towns and neighborhoods on the top of each page. You can add more information after the summary. Now I have to review all the towns and neighborhood pages that I created so that they have the same format. If you have any question, concerns or comment please contact me.

Siddiqui 17:02, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

You did a great job in Gulshan Town. Can you please reorganise all Towns of Karachi in the same format.

Siddiqui 23:02, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Good Idea. You can organize all Karachi Towns and neighborhoods.

Siddiqui 13:26, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

In the the towns page I cannot go to different neighborhood pages as it links back to the town page. Where are all neighborhood pages ? I think we also had Gulistan-e-Johar neigborhood page. I cannot find it either.

Siddiqui 12:50, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

A Western Sahara-related vote

-->Here Make your voice heard. Vote or die. And all that. -Justin (koavf), talk 20:27, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Your AfD Vote

At the demand of another Wikipedian, I have moved the three related articles in the Islamic athletics AfD to a different AfD page (since I added those three related articles after he/she voted). Since you voted Keep for the former and Delete for the latter in the Islamic athletics AfD, I'm asking that you move your votes to the proper locations or at least give me permission to do so. Either way, thanks for your input. joturner 04:33, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Re: Category:Special forces of Pakistan

I created it because actually the SSG is a specops unit and not a branch of the Pakistani armed forces, note also that lots of special forces categories have only one article [1]. By the way, why do you want to move the page? --Nkcs 04:53, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Pakistan Peer Review

I don't know if you are aware, but in the case you don't, the Pakistan article is under a peer review. Several comments have arised which might warrant your response, seeing how your probably more knowledgeable on the topic than I am. Pepsidrinka 22:10, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Military of Pakistan

The Template:Military of Pakistan is a standard navigational template which is used for the militaries of other countries also- therefore it should not be deleted. Looking at the other template- I would say that it is really only relevant for the main Military of Pakistan article, and that perhaps more specific template should exist for the three branches. Astrotrain 18:01, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

An Apology

I'm sorry. I'm computor illitterate and new to the internet. I was actually surprized to see changes actually occur after I dared to explore the 'edit' option. I then went on to experiment with what i could do with editing in a misguided effort to learn how to edit. It was when I clicked my user name that i learned that all required information was available aswell as your messages. I am truly sorry to have caused you anguish. I did expect, however naively, for my additions to be deleted and then to recieve an inquiry from you about my 'oppinion' at my e-mail address. I would have then informed you about my sources.

History is a very tricky thing indeed as the oppressor needs to hide and justify oppression. In many countries the publishing of books against orthodox oppinion are banned. while more often than not the oppressed party does not have the financial resourses to publish books etc. Therefore history that has been altered will remain so. At times very little and inaccurate (to say the least) information is available on certain regions, cultures, nations etc. the question is - is wikipedia going to basically assist and promulgate such ignorance?

Thankyou very much for your tips about how my article about my homeland should be written. I shall improve it whenever I'm free to do so.

Yours Sincerely —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arsalanrkazi (talk • contribs) 21:02, February 24, 2006 (UTC)

Makran Coastal Highway

I created Makran Coastal Highway and uploaded few photos. Later I found Coastal Highway (Pakistan) for the same subject. I would prefer to use its full name Makran Coastal Highway rather than just Coastal Highway. In any case I would like hear your comments.

Siddiqui 01:17, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Airports of Pakistan and List of Pakistan Natural Disasters

Can you please format these two pages.

Thanks Siddiqui 19:41, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Jinnah picture

Well the picture that you put there for Jinnah isnt very good quality. Its not even a picture. It looks more like a drawing. Please replace it with one that is more realistic than iconic. Jinnah was a real person, and his picture should depict that.

I understand your logic and it makes sense, but as far as identification goes, currently Pakistanis can identify with either picture of Jinnah because both are prevalent. I will be replacing it with some other picture of Jinnah from his campaigning era soon. Also, I do not understand the four tildes thing you were talking about. Where should I leave the four tildes? in the description of changes made dialogue? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Swerveut (talk • contribs) 01:03, February 27, 2006 (UTC)

You are Offensive and Short Sighted

Dear Green Giant, Good Day.

Though I do not know how "Giant" you are, but I usually do not like to TALK NONESENSE nor I like someone else to do so with me.

The Sindhi pages at Wiki projects really have problem. These days I am trying my best to gather some help from other Sindhis and attract people to develop Sindhi pages. The Sindhi page of Wikipedia was lying UNATTENDED and DESERTED for a long time. No one had visited the Sindhi page with just one or two articles in Devenagri that were totally un-understandable. Those are still there. But I made a new MAIN PAGE in Sindhi Arabic Script. If you bothered to have a look at Sindhi Wikipedia, then you must also have taken some of your precious time to see its history as well. It is me who has sacrificed the time and effort to make the MAIN PAGE and some more articles in Sindhi. Although, every thing there needs time, dedication and effort, much more than I, for one, can contribute.

Same is the case with Sindhi page at Wiktionary. I also need to find some time to change and update its php files as well, so that people can at least FIND Sindhi pages. Presently, the name of the language appears everywhere in Devenagri, which is un-understabdable to 99.99% of Sindhi population. This is the main reason of why Sindhi people have not been attarcted towards the Wiki projects. These remain simply INVISIBLE to everyone.

It is true that the Govt. of India had approved a Sindhi Devenagri Script in India after 1948, but it was rejected by the Sindhi Hindus of India, and never received the acceptance among them. It is true that Sindhi language can be written in the Devenagri Script, but as a matter of fact, there is a negligeable number of people who can really read and write that.

Showing LINK FOR Sindhi pages everywhere ONLY IN DEVENAGRI is totally UNJUSTIFIED. The language remains of course associated with its land, the SINDH, where it is recognised as official language only in ARABIC Script.

About Mr. Siddiqui... Wikipedia is a Multilingual encyclopedia in every language. In fact, even the ENGLISH Wikipedia is supposed to be enriched with the names of places and various other terms from all other languages; with, of course, an explanation in ENGLISH. I wanted to write the names of the places in Sindhi script, and later, add a link to the Sindhi Wikipedia, as the Inter-language co-ordination is ENCOURAGED at Wikis. But those names, written in Sindhi Script, were removed by the user Siddiqui, without any DISCUSSION or Warning. IT WAS SIMPLE VANDALISM. I asked him several times for not doing so. But every time, he removed those. It is natural to find the WAY THE NAME OF PLACE AS IT IS WRITTEN IN THE NATIVE OR THE LOCAL LANGUAGE OF THE PLACE. And it is always usefull to have a link to the relevant LANGUAGE PAGE AS WELL. But the user Siddiqui, resorting to Vandalsim, acted unwarrantedly.

Do you find any reason of telling how TOKYO is written in URDU on the TOKYO PAGE right in the MAIN TEXT? Similarly, there is no reason of writing name of every Sindh's city and place in Urdu. And it is highly VANDAL to remove names written in Sindhi.

I belong to Sindh and am Sindhi. I have every right to CONTRIBUTE and ADD THE TRUTH. In the HISTORY SECTION of the cities of Sindh, the original names were COMPLETELY TRANSLATED IN URDU. The Sindhi Term "CHAR YAR" was reported as being URDU WORDS; yet these explained the Sindh's king and his three friends. The names of many places were not just DISTORTED in their PRONUNCIATION, but were copmletely TRANSLATED in URDU. And when I JUST added or at some places corrected the names, those were simply removed by Mr. POLITE SIDDIQUI unwarrantedly without bothering to DISCUSS. He even removed, for many times, the names of Sindhi TV channels from the page of Karachi, sub section ECONOMY, leaving the names of Urdu Channels only. All this showed his BIAS and UNSPOKEN HATTERED for Sindh and Sindhi language, being an Indian immigrant. One more thing, the WORD MOHAJIR mentioned every now and there in the Wikis is not JUSTIFIED. This is the word used for Prophet Muhammad (Peace be Uppon Him) and his followers who migrated from MAKKAH to MADINA. The actual word is simply REFUGEES, and in local language, PANNAHGIR and in Urdu, PANNAHGUZEER, as they were reffered to as by the famous URDU daily JANG (at the time of partition of India). The JANG was itself editted by Urdu Speaking Indian Immigrants. The word Mohajir is neither nationality nor an official declaration for Indian Immigrants into Pakistan.

AND FINALLY YOU ............... Don't be too smart. And do not send your OFFENSIVE MESSAGES again and again. And do not get worried about how my talk page looks like. Do not cross limits. Behave decently. Do not press me report VANDALISM on your part. Aursani 21:56, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for offering me help. Although I am very busy with my PhD work, I always find some time for Sindhi Wikipedia due to my enormous affection with my land and the language. I shall appreciate if siddiqui and all others DISCUSS before removing anything. I shall surely ask for help as and when I needed. Thanks once again. Aursani 22:30, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

March 2006

Khairpur State

The Khairpur state page has served its purpose. it has gotten your attention. you are free to use what ever materials you need and should you need information about the sources of history, I shall provide that as soon as I can. I hope the green in your name does not represent the green in the Pakistan flag. If so, then truth is damned.Arsalanrkazi

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Arsalanrkazi (talk • contribs) 00:34, March 1, 2006 (UTC)

From Mr 'Simpson' of Khairpur

Well thank God! I did not Know How to edit the NGO site under construction. But I managed to learn how to edit Wikipedia simply through experimentation. It was what I put here that the site builders copied on to that other NGO site under contruction. Hence the Sabre-Rattling.;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arsalanrkazi (talk • contribs) 01:26, March 1, 2006 (UTC)

New Categories

I would like you to join following two categories of Muslims that have been censored by Zionista and Hindutva editors from posting your contributions.

  • Category:Wikipedians censored by Zionist editors
  • Category:Wikipedians censored by Hindutva editors

Siddiqui 03:09, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Template

Since you seem to be heavily involved in many Pakistani articles, I'd like to know if you have ever seen this template on any page. Its the infobox that's on the Pakistan article in template form. Seems kind of useless, as Pakistan is probably the only page that would use it. What links here shows no other article, but that may be because WLH has been malfunctioning lately and I don't know if its been fixed yet. Pepsidrinka 19:49, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Some additions

I,ve had a few dates and facts added and made a few alterations to the 3rd history chapter of http://www.khairpursindh.org. Please check them out. the sabre rattling is still there though. Arsalan.

Vedic civilization in the Pakistan page

For discussion, posted to Talk:Pakistan:

I propose to change the following paragraph:

The region was the site of one of the earliest towns in the world at Mehrgarh and later much of the Indus Valley Civilisation. That civilisation went into decline prior to the arrival of Indo-Aryan tribes from Central Asia. The two cultures mixed to produce the Vedic Civilisation that existed from Gandhara to the valley of the Ganges River, in what is now modern India, around 1500 BCE and helped shape subsequent South Asia cultures. However, this Aryan Invasion Theory has been challenged on the basis of new evidence which suggests that South Asian history shows continuity of progress from the earliest times to today and that changes brought by other cultures were not a major ingredient in the development of the Vedic Civilisation[2].

This version has a number of problems:

  • It omits the view, once almost universal and still widely-held, that invaders from Central Asia were responsible for the decline of the Harrapan civilization.
  • Whether, and to what extent the two cultures mixed or not is not known. One view is that the culture of the invaders largely replaced that of the natives. One widely-held view is that the caste system in India stems from an institutionalization of the racial differences between the new Caucasian rulers and the dark-skinned natives. This is supported by DNA analysis, which has found European genetic markers in the Y chromosomes of Brahmins, but not in other castes.
  • The text could be construed as claiming that the whole region from Gandhara to the Ganges is in modern India. However, Gandhara is not in modern India.
  • Whether the Vedic Civilization existed as early as 1500 BC is a matter of dispute between Hindu nationalists, who say that it did, and the vast majority of secular scholars who say that it evolved later. The text not only claims unequivocally that the Vedic civilisation is that old, but also that it extended from Gandhara to the Gangetic plain. I believe the preponderance of scholarly opinion is that the latter was heavily forested at that time, and was settled much later.
  • The text suggests that "new evidence" largely supports the indigenous-origin theory, and fails to mention that much new evidence tends to support the exogenous-origin theory.
  • It fails to mention the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex, the most likely origin of the invaders.
  • It fails to mention that the vast majority of secular scholars worldwide believe that the origin of Indo-European languages was not in India, and that Sanskrit and other Indo-European languages are relatively recent arrivals in India. Dating methods such as glottochronology have been used to estimate the date of origin of the Sanskrit language. Sanskrit probably evolved out of proto-Avestan in or around the area of the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex.

In conclusion, the existing text has factual errors, and at many points, presents one view, to the exclusion of other views that have more support in the peer-reviewed literature, especially among those who are not motivated by religious or nationalistic chauvanism. Would anyone like to propose a factually-accurate neutrally-worded text here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by SkepticalContrarian (talk • contribs) 05:31, March 6, 2006 (UTC)

Formatting

Please format Air Bases of Pakistan Air Force page. Siddiqui 18:40, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

The idiot

Must I say dear sir that as a new user I haven't had the time to manage to decode the rules and regulation, for I understand what you are accussing me of in relativity to the section Of Geography in the article India. --ishu 19:21, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Your Kindness and goodwill is much accepted by myself, however , I have taken heed to the basic rules, and am beginning anew. --ishu 19:28, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Jinnah picture

The Muhammad Ali Jinnah picture on the Pakistan page is currently said to be fair use. More than likely, it has passed into the public domain. Indian public domain laws say that a picture taken prior to 1946 are now in the public domain. Pakistan public domain laws are even more lenient, dating back to the 1950s. Since Muhammad Ali Jinnah died in 1948, the picture surely meets the Pakistan PD law. However, I'm almost certain the picture was taken in India, and I'm inclined to believe that the picture was published in India as well. Would you say these are valid assumptions? The India tag is Template:PD-India, while the Pakistan tag is Template:PD-Pakistan, which provide the specifics of the PD law. Pepsidrinka 20:03, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

History of Pakistan

Thankyou very much for reverting my addition of History of Pakitsan section Pakistan page. I will be creating a new page for Pakistan's history and I hope you will not make same revertions in that page. Siddiqui 16:48, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Re:SouthAsiaWaters

Hi - find it hard to believe that its the most interesting, but definitely it can be expanded to include lakes. Please feel free to chip in. Rama's Arrow 03:35, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Paris fun again

Green Giant,

I'm in no state to deal with this (I'm in the midst of post-season photo editing), but it looks like the 'Paris' fun has begun again. Dealing with this Hardouin character is indeed like banging one's head against a brick wall - and repetition only makes it flatter. I cannot enter another one-on-one battle - those days are over - but to make any edits 'stick' we're going to have to come up with some sort of consensus. Yet I fear even this will be ignored, as Hardouin has reverted past many edits from many users, and even your infobox modifications. I'm really getting tired of this. I hope you can take a more active role, as alone, even when in reason, one can do nothing. THEPROMENADER 08:53, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

PS: I also took the time to submit a WP:RfC and add an announcement to the Wikipedia Community Portal - with added editors perhaps we can break this deadlock, because as long as Hardouin keeps 'reverting to the old', a deadlock it is. Thanks and have a great weekend. THEPROMENADER 11:58, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Just another quick note - I noticed that the same person mentioned above also updated 'his/her' infobox with statistics from the 'World gazeteer' site that you provided - I would be careful of this source, as I have mentioined before. I also note that in GEsources' writeup of the site they put "It offers 'current population figures for cities, towns and places of all countries'." - placed between quotations like this, as it is on the site, is hardly a solid recommendation - as this is the site's own claim - and the site itself does not cite its sources. But the most important fact is that, if the INSEE didn't publish any estimations, no publishable sources exist. It's unfortunate that placing 'information of choice' is more important to some than information itself, and it is for this that questioning the true valor of information presented is conveniently and abusively skipped.
BTW, I will be putting your version of the infobox back into place until we can reach a final consensus on which form it should take. That sort of disregard and imposition is inacceptable. All the same, I still don't know the when and what of it all, but will look hopefully later today. I don't understand why you just let this happen, but if you agree with it let me know and I will change nothing. THEPROMENADER 13:40, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Can I ask you for your point of view on the above - should I just drop it? After last night's reverts, I intend to lodge a formal 'user conduct' complaint about Hardouin - that user's Paris page appropriation has gone on long enough. I especially want to focus on Hardouin's insistance on publishing (and reverting to) original research, personal opinions and factual errors and inventions - wiki should not be like this. I would like to ask you for some input there too - a word will do when I file the complaint. THEPROMENADER 07:39, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot (External link problem)

Wow! The procedure worked nicely ! The external link is now established.Thank you for your excellent help !! Thanks a lot.--Dwaipayanc 07:05, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Your Paris Page Suggestions

I just wanted to let you know that I agree totally with your Paris article recommendations and you have my total support, but I would like to leave off answering your messages on its talk page to let others reply first - my presence there has been a bit overbearing lately. I was in a similar 'proposition' situation quite some months ago and could get no consensus - but rest assured that this time you have mine.

Take care,

THEPROMENADER 17:01, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

LOL! Love your new userpage layout. Do let's continue our conversation on the Paris page about improvements - and let's hope others will join in too. In the meantime, I've begun the Paris metropolitan area article today - I think my writeup there sums what it is up nicely. I just saw your Paris sandbox - can I come play in it too? Joke aside, this is a great way to work out possible article writeup/layout solutions. Could we perhaps do this together - for starters? THEPROMENADER 23:27, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
Never mind apologising for your absence - no problem at all. I must admit though that I was a bit puzzled at your lack of response to issues you yourself had brought up. You are not the only one overworked and underpaid - well, what is well-paid covers for when things get 'sparse' between fashion seasons.
Thanks for the invitation - you know, what you have undertaken lately is almost exactly (down to the sandbox 'Paris page') what I had attempted to do six months before - if it doesn't bore you, have a look (way) back in Paris' talk page history - I think I posted a link to this in one of my answers to you.
I'm looking forward to working with you towards bringing the Paris page up to featured status. Working positively, in reason, I'm sure we can pull this article out of its months-long stagnated state into something read-worthy - and even beautiful! Thank you so much for your support (past and future) in this - it is thanks to you that we can move forward. Once the improvements begin, I hope others will jump on too. I'm ready whenever you are - let's get to work!
THEPROMENADER 11:35, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
There's been a bit more reverting, but there is some discussion going on on the talk page - why don't you join in? I'm a bit puzzled at your not following up on your former change propositions - now is perhaps a good time to forward them again? There are some interesting ideas floating for now. Take care. THEPROMENADER 10:50, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Pakistan

Do you think it is time to nominate Pakistan to featured article status, or would you rather work on it some more. In my opinion, it is ready, though I will defer if you prefer. Pepsidrinka 03:56, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Including

Your message was a tonic not a hazard – “including” takes care of “etc.” hahaha. --Bhadani 13:05, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Green Giant looks yellow. --Bhadani 13:06, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

But

Yeah, but that fine distinction might be lost on most readers. I thought 'and' might be better, except it's a rather long sentence then.

Good article. Tony 11:13, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Paris Sandbox

Made a few castles today. Left a note on the talk page!

THEPROMENADER 11:54, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

My Rfc

Please comment on my Rfc. Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Jersey Devil--Jersey Devil 02:11, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

The AfD's

Yeah, I got tired of copy&pasting the same thing everywhere :-) And I kept stumbling on new ones... Your suggestion of a dynasty article was an excellent one though! Weregerbil 09:33, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Latvian cities

Thanks for trying to help me, I do have few questions it would be very nice from you if you could answer - left them on my talk page -- Xil/talk 11:32, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

The test

Thanks for your greetings. I thought to take the Test, but decided not to -as it is dangerous for a wiki-addict to take the test - let me become "more-addict", then I may decide. --Bhadani 14:40, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

This page is beautiful, I am temted to copy it: Please remember, Bhadani is a great theaf, and he steals without warning! --Bhadani 14:44, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
Let us bait - who is more ugly-looking? --Bhadani 11:10, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Here we go again....

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Turkish Kurdistan - Bertilvidet 00:36, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

About the templates

Hi, I just wanted to tell you that I totally agree with you about the templates being uneconomical as they will only be used on the Portal:Pakistan or the WP:PKWNB.But you suggested nothing about their future, Should I mark them for deletion and copy they code to the page instead of using template but they editing the page will be like hell becuase of all the coding with the text.Thankyou

Wolverinetalk 21:24, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

FAC

Hello Coca Cola...err Green Giant. Was just reading your user page. Interesting that Green Giant (aka Coca Cola) and Pepsidrinka seem to get along so well in editing. I was wondering if you had any articles you in mind that you wanted to like work towards making another featured article (yes, I'm being premature, but the Pakistan-nom is all but finalized). Anyhow, this whole turning articles into one of the thousand best articles on WP seems rather fulfilling. Pepsidrinka 22:12, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I haven't really gotten back to you on this, because well, I really don't know which article I myself would like to edit. I've come to a inconclusive conclusion and decided that I'm going to work on Karachi for a while and if you'd like to help, I'd very much appreciate it.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Pepsidrinka (talk • contribs) 23:12, March 25, 2006 (UTC)

Much appreciation

I do in fact feel like such a nerd, being an administrator to an encyclopedia. Who would have thought. Thank you for the support vote on the RfA (and the chocolate). I was in fact hesitant to accept the nomination, yet I saw three people supporting me prior to my acceptance (you being the first), so I figured I'd go ahead and accept and see what happened. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pepsidrinka (talk • contribs) 08:04, March 26, 2006 (UTC)

Syed Babar Ali Zaidi

Thanks for the heads up. I did consider speedying it myself but I wasn't 100% sure (despite the lack of Google hits and the lack of credibility on the face of it). Good have someone with more knowledge of the subject deal with it :-) —Whouk (talk) 11:40, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

PS: I liked your version of the talk page archivebox so I've "borrowed" it for my first talk page archiving. Hope that's OK. —Whouk (talk) 12:01, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

"Horosopic" astrology

Sorry about that! Ha, I feel like an idiot. Thank you. Samuella 01:55, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Hymn of Russia

I have no clue what you done at [3], but I been trying to get that same effect for who-knows how long now. So, for not only doing that, and for the grammar check, that barnstar to the right of the screen is officially yours for the taking. Thanks. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 04:46, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the barnstar, it is my first so I will place it on my userpage. What I did was to remove the width code which was pushing the Russian column of the hymn table to 50% of the page. It should work with width at 33% but I don't think it's worth the effort. Anyway thanks for the barnstar and if I can help in anyway, feel free to ask. Green Giant 05:18, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Congrats

Hi ! Congrats for helping Pakistan become a Featured article!--Dwaipayanc 08:52, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, Kolkata is a still very long run! And it needs help from wikipedians like you and all. Thanks!--Dwaipayanc 09:00, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
  • That full moon beach party looks like a blast. Incidently, it takes a "wiki-nerd" to know a "wiki-nerd". And since you were more instrumental in the article than I was, or any other editor, I would have to go out on a limb and say you are the bigger nerd of the two of us. Pepsidrinka 15:02, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Help Me with my artcile with your reviews

Green Gaint, you probably alread ysaw my article Islamic Rulings. I ma trying to expand it and I am trying to make it a resourceful article for those who want to see these rulings as Muslim scholars percieve it by citing the resources. Tell me how it is and ways I can improve it, I plan to expand the artcile much longer. Please comments on my talk page. Thanks alot. MuslimsofUmreka 01:59, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!

Hey Green Giant, I'd really like thank you for taking the time to vote at my RfA. I withdrew due to certain controversies, but I appreciated your vote and hope to see you here in the future. Thanks again. --Khoikhoi 05:08, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for your support. BTW, nice work on the Pakistan page! :) --Khoikhoi 02:36, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Much appreciated

Thanks lots for taking the time to clean up the spelling and grammar in Richard Francis Burton. Good work. --Richard Clegg 12:36, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Paris Demographics Section - edit war?

I was wondering in your (big grin) 'threats' you were referring to my promising to re-insert the shortened Demographics text reverted by Hardouin - would you consider this as continuing the 'war'? I would consider it as re-instating an improvement re-inserts but for sure I don't want to fan flames. I thought it best to ask you before I went ahead with this - Giants are sooooo scary. THEPROMENADER 07:46, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your message, I'll go ahead when it is ready. In the meantime, I'm playing in your sandbox this morning : ) THEPROMENADER 08:31, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
I really get the impression that some things are going to 'reappear' tonight. Hope I'm wrong. THEPROMENADER 20:31, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

RfA Results and Thanks

Green Giant/Archive 1, thank you for supporting me in my recent RfA. Although it did not succeed as no consensus was declared (final: 65/29/7), I know that there is always an opportunity to request adminship again. If and when that day comes, I hope you will once again support me. If at any time I make any mistakes or if you would like to comment on my contributions to Wikipedia, you are more than welcome to do so. Regardless of your religious, cultural, and personal beliefs, I pray that whatever and whoever motivates you in life continues to guide you on the most righteous path.

--- joturner 12:34, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

April 2006

Visiting Paris?

Fasten your seat belt : ) THEPROMENADER 09:14, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello Green-footed fellow,
Save for the just-recent questions of an 'intercommunality president' slot extensive dialogue (with no seeming conclusion) about two bottommost sections (that have their uses, but after today I am tempted to just chop altogether), the infobox is completed and compliant with consensus. Could you have a look and comment please? You may have to scan a bit towards the end.
Thanks. THEPROMENADER 21:47, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you

Image:Admin mop.PNG Hello Green Giant, how are you? Thanks for your support in my RFA. The final vote count was (88/3/1), so I am now an administrator. I am very humbled by your vote and grateful. Please let me know if at any stage you require assistance, or if you have comments on how I am doing as an administrator. Once again thank you and with kind regards Gryffindor 16:58, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

List of Arab scientists and scholars

Thank You for your entries in List of Arab scientists and scholars. Unfortunatly its being seen by some users as vandalism! Jidan 06:48, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Wanted to say thank you for correcting my spelling and grammatic mistakes. Wow, didn't know that my english is that bad! Jidan 01:11, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
LOL. yes, you are right! ;-) Jidan

Karachi Page

The SeanMack has nominated Karachi page as a good article nominee, check Talk:Karachi. I think we have to form a team and work together to improve the page and get that nomination. Siddiqui 06:08, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi

Hi, thanks for the edits in Kolkata. I did not know the rule that references should be put up in the order! Bye.--Dwaipayanc 07:42, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Jinnah PR

Hi - I request your help on an effort to make this article an FA. I know you can really help us solve some serious problems and add reliable info. Please check it out whenever convenient. Rama's Arrow 16:09, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

List of Pakistan-related topics

Hello. I was searching around the List of lists the other day and found that many countries have a List of related topics article. Apparently Pakistan did not, so I started on. If you could, participate in the population effort. List of Pakistan-related topics. Thanks. Pepsidrinka 23:31, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Why not "Center" an image?

Hi RE http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Northern_Areas%2C_Pakistan&action=history, why not center an image? The image is very small and doesn't look good in the current resolution. (The link was a mistake) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Waqas.usman (talk • contribs) 17:23, April 16, 2006 (UTC)

The main reason for not centering an image is that it looks out of place when all the other images are right-aligned. If someone was to read an article, the best effect is when the text is not broken up by images but the images are at one side. I've been meaning to try to find a better image to replace that one anyway but I've not had the time. Also please sign your talk page messages using four tildes ~~~~ which will automatically insert your username and time and date. Green Giant 21:50, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Oh, you mean you weren't satisfied with the layout of the page in that particular case, I thought you were "prohibiting" any image to be centered :) (I forgot to sign it on the first message, and came back to write more and sign it, but forgot it again :P)
I have some images of my own from Nanga Parbat but don't have time to sort them out and upload. Waqas.usman 22:02, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Gujar Khan

What is ur problem.... Dont change the page of Gujar khan. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mrnaveed (talk • contribs) 18:13, April 17, 2006 (UTC)

My problem is that some people insist on ignoring Wikipedia rules. Look at the article carefully and you will see that there are images on the article with questionable copyright issues. What you did was to revert an automatic robot which had removed these images. If you can obtain permission to use those images, then there is no problem at all. If Wikipedia was to allow images to be added without permissions, then it would face legal action which would damage the project. I am changing your reversion back until the image copyright is sorted out. As to your statement, try to be more polite when you ask someone why they changed things. Remember anyone can edit these articles in good faith. Also, please sign your edits on talkpages using four tildes like this -> ~~~~ to automatically add your username and time and date. Green Giant 17:31, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

apologies

sorry, i apologize for those edits. thank you for your help. I will not edit your web pages again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.50.255.96 (talk) 19:22, April 17, 2006 (UTC)

Reply posted on anon's talkpage Green Giant 18:27, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Karachi

I have a source for the info, it is in the article —Preceding unsigned comment added by Supiwani (talk • contribs) 22:14, April 17, 2006 (UTC)

Could you be more precise? Where in the article is the source? Green Giant 21:17, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

It is in the article of Karachi, under demographics, at the bottom of the table there. Supiwani 21:55, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

That is not a source and you can't cite other wikipedia articles as sources. It's an image created by another editor who did not cite his source either but made it clear that he had made the table himself. Please find a verifiable source such as a website by reputable organisation and then change the figures. Green Giant 22:55, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

What is wrong with http://www.karachicity.gov.pk/ top paragraph? Supiwani 18:46, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

The top paragraph figure is something the city government has suggested for a while but not backed up with a reasoning. After the 1998 census, there were claims that the real population including shanty towns was actually 14 million, so that figure was really for 1998. In eight years the original claimants have not updated the figure so it is unacceptable for use here. The main problem is that the Population Census Organization has not provided any recent estimates since the 1998 census -> [4]. The reason I added the figure from the World Gazetteer is that it is a reliable source of information which has academic recommendations. If the city-government of Karachi or the population census people were to publish some estimates properly, it would be no problem inserting those instead of the gazetteer figures. Green Giant 22:11, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Green Giant, if you could please put more pictures of Karachi's skyscrapers in the article. Supiwani 22:24, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
Reply posted on Supiwani's talkpage. Green Giant 22:26, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

What do u mean by free for use images? Supiwani 22:52, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Reply posted on Supiwani's talkpage. Green Giant 22:53, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Gren Giant, there r some good photos of Karachi that r all public, go to the bottom of Karachi article,click on Flickr.com-photos of Karachi. Supiwani 23:08, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

What more needs to be done before Military history of Pakistan becomes a featured article?

Hi Green Giant,

I have worked on the Military history of Pakistan article. I was just wondering, what do you think is needed to be done on that page before it becomes a Featured Article.

Please let me know, so I can implement these changes.

Thanks

Mercenary2k April 17, 2006 8:51 PM

Qaumi Tarana

Has been deleted per your request Admrb♉ltz ( T | C | E ) 22:40, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I changed ترانه to ترانہ and added ، to قوم ملک سلطنت to form قوم ، ملک ، سلطنت and added ! to ارض پاکستان and جان استقبال. Changed تابنندہ to تابندہ.You did an excellent job !
Siddiqui 00:17, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
I will check the version of Pakistan's old National Anthem.
Siddiqui 04:23, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
I changed few word in the Qaumi Tarana. Hopefully they are correct. I will double check with a dictionary this weekend.
Siddiqui 11:49, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
You did all the work. Great job !
Siddiqui 13:12, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Under which category should PTDC lie?

Salam, I just created a page on PTDC, where to put it in the category tree? Also, I just put the "Category:Forts in Pakistan" directly under Pakistan, later I realized that it is a category of "Buildings and structures in Pakistan", which is a category of "Pakistani architecture" which is a category of "Pakistan". What do you suggest? Waqas.usman 06:55, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Cleaning up categories tree

I was cleaning up the categories tree, especially under "Northern Areas" of Pakistan category lots of stuff was mixed in, towns, valleys, districts... I've created a new Category under "Category:Northern Areas, Pakistan", and added a sub-category of "Category:Cities and towns in Northern Areas, Pakistan" and another sub-category of "Category:Regions in Northern Areas, Pakistan" which lists the previous or current states that are now consider as "Northern Areas" (cities are not included in this list). I have asked a moderator for deletion of these following categories: Category:Northern Areas Category:Valleys in Northern Areas, Pakistan

I hope it's going in the right direction. Waqas.usman 07:51, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Excellent work, the whole area needs a thorough overhaul. I think the best place for the PTDC article whould be in Category:Tourism in Pakistan. As for the Category:Forts in Pakistan I would suggest it should go to Category:History of Pakistan but keep it in Category:Pakistani architecture as well because the forts have historical and architectural importance. I also agree with the new better-named categories for NA regions etc. Green Giant 23:07, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, I'm also adding more information on Kashmir articles because they are heavily Indian POV and hardly mention the Paksitani POV. Also, the list Azad Kashmir#Geography doesn't look good here, how to present it in a better way?
And about the PTDC article, I had figured it out later and put it under that category.Waqas.usman 23:21, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Karachi

what makes world gazetteer correct,it is also an estimate of population, plus it doesn't even seem like a profesional website. Supiwani 23:22, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Reply posted on Supiwani's talkpage Green Giant 00:39, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

green giant, the first link to dawn is the migration info article, the second link is info on the port tower complex, i expanded an article on that subject, and that was my source Supiwani 00:34, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

how do u put images into the article?Supiwani 01:33, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Jinnah FAC

Hi - Jinnah is FAC. I decided to move on FAC becoz I believe that all remaining objective criticism will only be obtained there. I ask for your support and welcome all criticism. Rama's Arrow 15:02, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Chukar

Thanks! Glad to help! Did it from their respective natural distributions - RLP doesn't occur outside of western Europe, Chukar is native in Pakistan - MPF 15:38, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi Green Giant - thanks for your compliments and support for my work, and also on Jinnah's FAC. Please lemme know whenever I can be of assistance. It is very pleasing to cross 10,000. Rama's Arrow 15:49, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Hi Green Giant, thanks for your reply its really great to heare others appreciate the work were all doing.

Many thanks Fast track 23 April 2006 19:05 (UTC)

Re:Jinnah

Hi - I had added that reference from a source given to me by user:Nichalp. I'm going to sleep right now, but I assure you that when I log in 7 hours from now, I will provide an alternate, better source or take down the note. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Rama's Arrow 04:28, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

New 'Large French Cities' Infobox Template proposition

Hello - how are you? I've left the following comment on all of the 'French City' aricles using the 'Large French Cities' template - if you can help please do:

I'd like to bring your attention to a new - or other - version of the "Large French Cities" infobox presently at use in a few French cities pages. The present version is much too large, partly because it consecrates too much space to information having little importance to French demography and an only distant and indirect relevence to the city itself. Instead I propose to follow a less cumbersome model closer to that used by the New York City article - you can view the new version in the Paris talk page here. Please view and comment. THEPROMENADER 22:26, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Here's the message I left on every talkpage containing the 'Large French Cities' infobox:
As a result of some discussion over the past weeks, there is an updated template available for perusal in its 'published ' form (filled with data) here - all comments welcome. -- THEPROMENADER 07:30, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Iran reversions

Can you please make the next reversion. I can't do it any longer, since I will be going past 3RR. -- Jeff3000 23:42, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Iran article revertions

Green Giant; I have asked you many times not to intitiate edit wars there, and try to work with other people. There is no reason why you should go and erase/revert so many sections, without discussing it with anybody else in that article.Zmmz 02:07, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

This thread is continued on User talk:Zmmz. Green Giant 03:09, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

2004 Indian Ocean earthquake

Hello. If your not busy, would you mind giving me some feedback for the current featured article nomination for 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake? And by the way, if the Iran article gets out of hand again, let me know. Pepsidrinka 18:36, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Hamedan

I was born and raised in Iran and as far as I know it is Hamedan (atleast thats the pronounciation in Persian, the only official language of Iran), so when I saw it with alternative spelling I was surprised, I moved it but I saw the alternative spelling as alternative spelling so I didn't check the article properly I think. I thought perhaps Zereshk or others would probably fix it up or revert my actions if they're wrong (I wasn't sure about it). -- - K a s h Talk | email 22:58, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Islam

Sorry, Green Giant, I hadn't meant to revert your Ismaeli edit. You know how that happens, I was writing mine when you did yours. Feel free to restore.Timothy Usher 04:17, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the wishes

Yes, it is always comforting to see encouraging wishes from friends. Thank you, we shall make the wikipedia the best. Thank you. --Bhadani 06:01, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

And, also for clearing the "air" about Faisalabad District and City. Thank you. --Bhadani 10:42, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Iran

Hi, there was no whitespace reduced, and even if there was, the first image on a section should be in the same line as the content, not the reference to another article above the content :). Thank you for your understanding. --Darkred 23:43, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I see, well thank you too for not reverting to your own edits without thinking about my edits. I understand that there is no rule for where the image should start, i merely meant it looks better or more serious that way. Also your suggestion about adding material to the economy section to wipe out whitespace sounds clever, i wish you good luck. --Darkred 00:57, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Sports In Pakistan

I was in process of editing this page when you made the changes. Your changes were overwritten. Can you please make those changes again or I can go back and make those changes later today. Sorry about it. Siddiqui 14:32, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Work together

In order to work together and cooperate with each other, there needs to be a minimum of compromising spirit. Unfortunately, for all the painful months that I have "experienced" Promenader's criticism, I have never detected any trace of compromise on his part. He doggedly wants to remove metropolitan area information, and whenever someone else dares to agree with me, he accuses them of being my sock puppets. Is that really the way to compromise?

French communes are like Australian local authorities, they are very small and don't accurately account for what people understand as being the city. Did you know that the city of Sydney only contained 120,000 people? What sense would it make to refer only to that tiny administrative city without refering to the larger metropolitan area. Furthermore, French communes are in a process of unification, with the creation of intercommunalities, and in places like Lille or Lyon the situation is very complex and needs to be fully accounted for in the infobox, otherwise there's no need for an infobox in the first place, like Captain Scarlet said. Hardouin 00:33, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

And what if we moved the strictly-speaking commune information to a City of Paris or City of Lyon article, and dedicated the Paris and Lyon articles to a more general presentation of the whole metro areas? That's what was done for Sydney (check Sydney vs City of Sydney). That's also what was done for Brussels (check Brussels vs City of Brussels). Hardouin 12:27, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
If you don't mind, I must insert another 'apples to oranges' alert here. Few city borders are as well-defined as Paris' are; few cities in the world have residents (in and out of the city) with such black-and-white ideals of what it 'in' or 'out' of Paris is. This should make this 'city article' even more simple to write, yet I am in agreement with the idea that, since Paris' natural growth does not stop at its borders, its article should speak to these limits as well within proper context. On the other hand, speaking of everything within an area including places of sometimes isolated villages of commuters to the city (rather, its urban spread) as the city itself is an idea not only ludicrous and shared by none (one has only to look at the introduction of the metropolitan area article for confirmation of this), but, more importantly, is an idea unreferencable - because it is an opinion mirrored by no referencable publication and not even in the official City of Paris, Île-de-France and INSEE websites. This fact has been related and proven perhaps hundreds of times before in the Paris talk pages.
The idea of splitting the article along the lines cited above is also ludicrous: are we suggesting that Wiki redefine 'Paris' even before its government does? This goes beyond original research. I'm sure you can cite many examples like London's "Square Mile" or the City of Sydney to try to justify a blurring of borders, but the city of Paris is nothing even remotely resembling either of these. The Brussels example is off the mark as well, as everything within a given region is generally known as 'Brussels' to its inhabitants - Paris does not share this trait in any way official or unofficial. Unlike Greater London (governed by the greater London Authority whose website (www.london.gov.uk) shows them officially using 'London' to encompass the whole Greater London area, there exists in France no governing authority greater than Paris operating under the name 'Paris' . There's Paris, its surrounding communes and more importantly, though strangely neglecting mention in the above comments, its départements, and the whole encompassed by the Île-de-France région. That's it.
The Paris article is the only in the (Wiki) world that goes to such desperate lengths to try to extend its borders in this way; I can only wonder at the motivation for this, but what I can assure is the reaction of those I'd asked to read the article (in its former state) - a schoolteacher and a newspaper journalist to name two, both of them French and lifetime Paris residents: both involved puzzlement followed by either a smile or a bout of chuckling. Or should we ignore reality, these reactions, and every reference in existence and assume that we know much better than they?
I hope my points are becoming clearer through repetition. THEPROMENADER 16:56, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
Promenader, what's with your manner of intervening in conversation that don't involve you? Are you tracking any of my move on Wikipedia? That's becoming insane! Green Giant, maybe now you're starting to understand what I mean when I talk of my "experience" with Promenader in the past months... Hardouin 12:02, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
As for Promenader's comment that "Few city borders are as well-defined as Paris' are", that's about as ridiculous as saying that few country borders are as well-defined as France's are. Every municipality, at least in the developped world, have clearly defined borders. The borders of the City of Sydney are as clearly defined as the borders of the City of Paris. Just check any ordnance map. Yet it doesn't mean that administrative borders necessarily reflect the perception of the city by the people. In Paris they certainly don't. Hardouin 12:08, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Au contraire: for the people they certainly do, and it is exactly in this the meaning of my 'well-defined borders'. Exactly why this attempt at misinformation - here? THEPROMENADER 12:36, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
What does your propos have to do with anything above it? I have a watchlist just like you do - and what you 'proposed' here was just plain wrong. Stick to the facts please. THEPROMENADER 12:05, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
Stop stalking, Promenader! Hardouin 12:13, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
LOL - who's watching who? Hardoin, I need do no more than hit 'refresh' on my watchlist and I see that you're already on my tail. Green Giant, please remove these last four hors-propos statements that are only a distraction from the discussion at hand. THEPROMENADER 12:18, 1 May 2006 (UTC)
I continue this on here because I want Green Giant to know exactly what kind of person is Promenader. Promenader always excuses his stalking by saying that it is so "easy" with IT technology (you just need to "hit refresh"). That's exactly what he said when he stalked User:Metropolitan. Green Giant, you really need to ask Metropolitan for an account of Promenader's stalking. Promenader thought that Metropolitan was my sock puppet, so he went into insane great length to prove that. Apparently, Promenader is a computer geek, so he used his computer know-how to dig Metropolitan's private life in a disgusting way. He uncovered his moves on the internet, discovered which forums on the internet Metropolitan is participating in, he even found out what internet provider are using the parents of Metropolitan!! Metropolitan was so enraged at that kind of stalking that he wrote insulting messages to Promenader, to which Promenader replied that there was no need to get upset, because it just takes 1 minute with his internet tools to find out that kind of information. As if technology was an excuse! That's the kind of person you're dealing with when you have Promenader in front of you. Now please don't believe me on my word and ask Metropolitan about the whole story. Or read his talk page. Hardouin 12:33, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Now you are simply being ridiculous, Hardouin. It took you a lot more work to find the info you based all that (greatly exaggerated/distorted nonesense - one IP number, one link and one Google search resulting in one forum - Metropolitan him/her self provided the rest) out about me than it took for me to follow a few links (hacker indeed - your email is 'noos.fr' right? voila your ISP). What has this to do with the facts discussed above, and what has this to do with anything contained in any article? A bit of maturity please. THEPROMENADER 12:45, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Definition of hybrid vehicle

I created the titular article as a repository for all the comments on Hybrid vehicle that degenerated into arguments on what one was. The comment page was huge for that article, and despite being a Wikinewbie, I thought it best to move it elsewhere. Thoughts? CGameProgrammer 02:34, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

copied from User talk:CGameProgrammer

I understand, sometimes editors lose sight of the original purpose of Wikipedia. The best place for the text however is either on the Hybrid vehicle talkpage or on a user subpage. You can create a subpage for your userspace by editing the userpage -> [5] and then typing in the following -> [[/Hybrid vehicle]]. Save your userpage and you should have a redlink which you should click. It opens a blank page to which you can post the above material and then save the page. It will be linked directly to your userpage. Green Giant 02:43, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Qaumi Tarana

We all shall work togethaer and try to make all those as FA. We can do it for sure. Thanks for your interest. --Bhadani 12:57, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

May 2006

Karachi page

I haved added the info about TV networks removed by Aursani and Green Giant.

[[6]] Removed by Green Giant
[[7]] Removed by Aursani

Comment by in Karachi Discussion page:

=== I'll remove other channel names too ===
If you remove names of Sindhi channels from the page, I'll remove names of other channels as well. Refrain from
Vandalism. Aursani 17:03, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Siddiqui 18:50, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome

My pleasure... Crum375 23:02, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

The Wiki Pakistan Community

Hi Green Giant,

I was wondering if you have seen the following page, its a place where alot of people work as a team to progress and work together on articles and images of Wikipedia.

The Pakistani community for sometime has been very dormant, as there were not many people here to write articles related to Pakistan. If you go the following "Project page" you will see a new community has been formed, where I think alot of us should asign tasks and work more as a community than individually. Here's the link;

Wikipedia:Notice board for Pakistan-related topics. Do take a look at all the other communities the way they are working to improve articles and promote their communities.

I think its about time we all do the same. As you may notice everthing is just been laid out, so now its our turn to fill the gaps. Do pass the word on to other Pakistanis and people working on Pakistani articles.

Many thanks, Fast track 06:59 08 May 2006 (UTC)

Edit war

Hey! Giant! Another edit war has begun in Pakistan. See the changes made in economy by Holy Ganga  (talk · contribs) and deletion by Anwar saadat (talk · contribs). I reverted Anwar saadat's edits, as the references provided by Holy Ganga is reliable, one of BBC and other from Foreign Policy Magazine, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. At least, BBC source is ok.

However, I should not indulge in it much as there may be question regarding nationalities, once again! Please see.--Dwaipayan (talk) 20:23, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

List of airports in Pakistan

Salam! You reverted the extra spaces at the top, there was a reason for it; without the extra spaces the image overlaps with the table in firefox (and in opera 9 as well). See Talk:List of airports in Pakistan. I've reverted it. Waqas.usman 20:14, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Portal Link in Islam

Can you explain the reasoning behind moving the portal link to the bottom when Religion, Ayyavazhi, Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Jainism, Judaism, Shinto, Sikhism, Taoism, and Zoroastrianism have it placed near the top? Thanks. BhaiSaab talk 20:32, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the explanation. BhaiSaab talk 23:40, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Paris Pagination

Green Giant,

It has been a while since your tread has been felt in Paris. For the infobox discussion, only one point is being argued for now, but we've pretty well gone the round of that. I realise that you wanted to remove all of the metropolitan area info, but I thought that for reasons of explanation and clarity we should make some mention of it, albeit in a reduced and clearer form, and accompanied by the primary measure of Paris' real urban growth (that is not 'Paris' - and clearly shown as such!). You have yet to say anything about this, and it would be helpful if you make it know whether you approve, disapprove or have another suggestion. Thank you very much. --THEPROMENADER 21:26, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

PS: If you would like a clear explanation of why I think those two rows should stay, scroll (way way) down to the bottom of the talk page where you'll see a paragraph in italics - that pretty well explains it in a nutshell. Goodnight! --THEPROMENADER 22:09, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Never fear, never mind any longer - the templates are now in place. When is the 'star drive' to begin? I'm ready whenever you are. Shall we dance? THEPROMENADER 21:49, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I would really appreciate your input on the Talk:Paris Page. Total revert; all template articles. Four times. Thanks. THEPROMENADER 01:27, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I do lose it when I see things backtrack. Advice taken - goodnight. THEPROMENADER 01:45, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
I left one more message on the Talk:Paris page that about sums it up: we can stop while dealing with the 'personal relations' of all this, but all that counts is fact, and if we stop halfway to fact just in order to 'play nice' then we will never have a recommendable article. User:Hardouin has thrown every roadblock possible between reason and fact, and you yourself have been witness to this - this can be very discouraging sometimes, and downright insulting when answering with fact turns to baseless (and mirrored) accusations so of course I get heated - and frustrated when nobody will take the time to verify who's got the facts straight or not.
There is absolutely no excuse for Hardouin's behaviour last night - it is of course that I complained about it, and it is of course that I was angry because of it. Remember that it was I who began the drive to garner consensus to change on that page, and in this case it was I who spent the time to do the graphic work resulting from all that. To a more pleasing end I hope! Not to mention even more talk page time wasted on re-verifying sources to clear talk page fog once again. To have a single contributor revert weeks of discussion and an afternoon's work to the very problem we were trying to fix is not a simple disagreement needing discussion to clear up: it is misconduct, and a flagrant and disruptive one at that. I don't see how anyone can see otherwise.
I do apologise for my sometime harsh tone in this affair, but it has gone on long enough - as things as they have been for the past year, the result will never be verifiable fact or reason, let alone a featured article. Here we should bend to fact ans esthetics, not the inventive aggressiveness of one contributor. Were you an admin I would ask you to mediate as you have been equally communacitive to both Hardouin and I - as it seems as though this is where this is going - but whoever does take that task will have to take a real look into the 'fact and act' of the matter - not an easy chore, I know. THEPROMENADER 08:33, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Green Giant: Please help to prevent any further reverting to anything not vandalism; this is the only way we can ever hope to move forward. This will also make talk pages the place for constructive discussion, instead of the heated and sometimes incomprehensible 'justifications' for reverting so discouraging to new editors. This act makes an article something to defend, not to improve, and generally polutes the editing atmosphere. So please, as you have for talk pages, please keep an eye open to make sure reverts are used for what they are intended - vandalism only. Thank you. THEPROMENADER 10:46, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
Reverts are intended for vandalism and also for removing POV edits. Your infoboxes, which replaced all the infoboxes that I had spent a considerable amount of time working on (this, of course, is triffle to you!), are not only unnecessary (there is already the template that I created a year ago, and that can be improved on, if it needs to be improved), but they are also POV (your personal vision that metropolitan areas are irrelevant and misleading in France). Green Giant, sorry for writing this here, but I can only be totally infuriated when I read the kind of slandering Promenader is doing on everybody's talk page in my back (read User talk:Olivier for a blatant example of slandering). Hardouin 20:51, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Hunza Valley should be the main article on Hunza

SeeTalk:Hunza. Waqas.usman 19:59, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

We need an admin to move the Hunza pages. Btw are you an admin? I supposed you are, you oughta be... but if you're not, I'd nominate you. Waqas.usman 20:03, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Your message

Answered on my talk page. Hardouin 01:53, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, new answer on my talk page, and let's leave some time then and consider things again over the week-end (although the formal complaint filed tonight against me might not allow me to take a few days break from this)... Hardouin 02:22, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Banu Musa

Thanks for pointing to Banu Musa, I haden't noticed there was already a page. I merged the two, and fixed the redirects. flammifertalk 07:19, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Supreme Leader of Iran

Actually, I had no idea that "Leader" was supposed to be capitalized either! I guess you learn something new everyday on Wikipedia. --HappyCamper 23:58, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad I was of some help :-) Feel free to come by again if you need a hand! --HappyCamper 00:02, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Paris infobox – continued

Green Giant, there are now some other users that have expressed disagreement with Promenader's choices concerning his new infobox. You can read the messages at Talk:Paris. Several users have also complained about Promenader's new maps which do not display properly on everybody's screen. In light of this, and of what I had said before, I restored the previous infobox and made it very clear on the talk page that it was only a conservatory measure waiting for consensus to be reached about urban and metro areas and for problems solved with the maps. I think it is most reasonable to wait and not rush if the new Promenader's infobox is disputed by some and if the maps do not display correctly. Yet within 8 minutes of my edit Promenader reverted back to his infobox. There seems to be no way to reason this guy, not that I don't try. My message on the talk page was the most uncontroversial and compromising possible, I stressed that it was only a conservatory measure, but to no avail. I reckon Promenader listens to you, so perhaps you could try to talk to him. It seems only reasonable not to publish a new infobox as long as there are several users disagreeing with it. Have a look and let me know. Hardouin 18:26, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Help on Pakistan Occupied Kashmir page

Greetings. I wanted to get some other opinions on whether to keep this POK page or not. I think it serves as a propaganda page rather than adding anything of value and Indian Occupied Kashmir page was rightly deleted recently and I think the same should be done with this page to avoid one-sided arguments that are unbecoming for an encylopedia. Your input would be appreciated [8]. Thanks. Tombseye 16:21, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Paris 'Star Drive'

There is quite a bit of movement on the Paris page these last days, and all to the better. If you would like to contribute to the Paris 'star drive' you spoke of before, now's the time. Looking forward to it. THEPROMENADER 09:18, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Can you lend me a helping hand?

Hi,

When the Indian Institutes of Technology article was first put for FAC, there were a lot of issues with it and as expected you voted against it. On my request, you also copyedited the article extensively to make the article clearer. Now I am planning to pose the article for FAC again. I feel a little cleanup may still be required. Can you help me by copyediting the article again. I would be grateful. Also, please tell if there are any issues that might be detrimental for its FAC. Thanks, -Ambuj Saxena (talk) 19:40, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Iqbal PR

Hi GG - I request your attention and help on making Muhammad Iqbal an FA. Please share your views on Wikipedia:Peer review/Muhammad Iqbal/archive1. Rama's Arrow 14:11, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

July 2006

India -> India + Pakistan + Bangladesh

I and User:Rama's Arrow were discussing [9] linkage of pages to India when refer to pre-1947 India (undivided India). Please have a look at discussion, and comment. You can also invite user interested in Pakistan, India and Bangladesh. Following is statement to start:

India after 1947 consists of three countries, Pakistan, India and Bangladesh. When we use word India, in articles, refereeing to whole India, links are such that they bring us to present day India (Republic of India), reducing size of pre-1947 India considerably. Is it possible that when we refer to pre-1947 India we use a term which encompasses whole India not just present day India? Please comment.

Following are suggestions:

--Spasage 10:56, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Mansura Jamaat

I came across this article randomly and I'm not sure what it is. I asked at the Jamaat-e-Islami article with no response so far. I put in an RfC and nothing has come back yet. I was going to ask the creator, Siddiqui but he has a Wikibreak notice up. Since I noticed that you gave him two barnstars for Pakistan-related work and it is a Pakistan stub, I thought that you might be able to help or know someone who might be able to. I really know nothing in the area. Thanks. --JGGardiner 19:31, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

September 2006

Tallest structures - "Paris area"

A few of us have managed to come into agreement over an "in the Paris area" title - as a former participant in the discussion, your views and vote on the matter would much be welcome at Talk:List of tallest buildings and structures in Paris. Thank you. THEPROMENADER 18:03, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

ktip image

Hey, just wanted to let you know that Image:Crystal Clear Ktip.png has been replaced by Image:Crystal Clear app ktip.png and you will probably want to update your pages/templates. Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 23:39, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

October 2006

Join the Wiki Pakistan Project!

Just found a link on the Pakistan talk page that is asking fellow Wikipedians to join so we can start to improve Pakistani related articles; Check it out - Wikipedia:WikiProject/List of proposed projects --Fast track 16:28, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

November 2006

History of Pakistan

Good to see you. This page has been target of Indian contributors for rewriting according to Hinduvta ideaology. Now it has been protected with Indian version of Pakistan history. Can you please also keep eye on this page. Siddiqui 14:29, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Urdu translations?

Hi, I'm trying to build up a database to create articles on political parties on different wikipedias. Could you have a look at User:Soman/Lang-Help-ur? Thanks, --Soman 14:36, 7 November 2006 (UTC)