Talk:Grey DeLisle
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Added Category:Alternative country. Pearce.duncan 04:47, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] Grey's Last Name
How do you pronouce Grey's last name?--70.58.240.56 19:11, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
== Who cares? == Smith Jones 20:00, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I care! I wrote that post! Anybody?--70.58.240.56 02:50, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
- Apparently, it's pronounced "DeLyle" Zidane4028 09:06, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] WP:BLP
There's a big dustup about citation on Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. Although I am among many opposing an editors behavior with regard to the policy, the debate was on my mind when i bounced to this page. Because this page specifically mentions some trauma in childhood and career difficulties, I believe that regular editors should find citations for this page. I'll try to look in in a week's time to check on this. If no progress has been made, I'll tag, then escalte as needed after that. If the matter is resolved in the week, I'll thank you all and go away. ThuranX 19:47, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Ambiguous pronoun
In second sentence under 'Trivia", who is 'she'? Ms. DeLisle or Ms. Strong? --86.91.42.242 03:55, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] External links
I believe fansites, whether recognized or not, are not to be included. Nothing against the site or the subject (I'm a fan), but I think it's policy not to link to fansites. Chickenmonkey 02:41, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
You do make a good point but the sites that everybody thinks were fansites that I did remove was official as I am friends with Grey- Sheila
[edit] Note from Grey
I am friends with Grey and she wanted me to post something about her birthday because everybody keeps changing it to one that is not right. Right now it is right but me are Grey feel they are going to remove it again. i posted a statement from Grey to l wiki members and an admin removed it because they call it nonsense!! Grey wants it there. Can I repost it there and if yes how can i post it without getting removed again.- Sheila
AnyBody?-Sheila
Searches at Intelius [1] for "Grey DeLisle" and "Erin G Van Oosbree" both corroborate DeLisle's assertion through her official myspace site of a 1973 birthyear and refute IMDb's incorrect Aug 12, 1972. Intelius is a respected for-profit public records database. ClaudeReigns 22:55, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I have to pay to look at that site. I tried to fix it on IMDB but they keep inoring it. I am telling you the truth that I am friends with Grey DeLisle. -Sheila
That's awesome that you're friends with Grey. It doesn't help with the whole sourcing standard at wikipedia (we can't accept your word as Gospel if you just say "Grey told me") but it does help greatly in verifying our information. But anyone can use the basic search feature at Intelius which verifies a person's age. Grey is clearly 33 and not 34 according to all the public records which they possess under both her birth and present names. So the 1973 birth is correct, and I will continue to revert edits based on the mistaken 1972 date. We do need to support ALL statements in a Wikipedia article with sources, especially since Grey is a living person. There's a lot here that isn't sourced and we need to be able to point to articles, interviews, and such as verifiable sources of fact. Let me know what reliable, verifiable sources you can pull together and I will keep looking from my end. ClaudeReigns 10:48, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Thanks so much for that!! I know that is hard to believe somebody who comes up to you and say they are friends with a famoud person amd Grey wanted me to point that out that the internet has her born August 12, 1972!! Thanks for you help!! I forgot to also tell you that I run Grey's Official MySpace Page -Sheila
Hey, I want to say that we should definitely keep an eye on Grey's official website for resume-type stuff. Just found some things we can add there. The official pages are "primary sources" which can be used for one thing: establishing the notability of the subject. So now I'm going to add some citations, too! ClaudeReigns 11:36, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Thank you so much for everything!! One little problem problem with the official site, It has not been updated in months, It does not say anything about Jefferson Texas Hammond, Her new son. -Sheila
[edit] Messed Up
I messed up on the side bar for Grey!! I wanted to changethe color and i can put it back to were it was before!! Can somebody help me with that!! -Sheila
[edit] Citations and Tone
There are a few statements which I can still not cite reliably.
- "Since 1998, Grey DeLisle became one of America's most beloved and well-respected voice actresses."
- "She has even learned how to speak Japanese, thanks to fellow voice actors Janice Kawaye and Keone Young, for her role as Yumi on Hi Hi Puffy AmiYumi." (Although I did confirm through a magazine article that those are her co-stars on that show and that the cartoon features Japanese singing) A statement of notability such as "Grey DeLisle is one of few Americans working as both a voice actor and vocalist in Japanese for musical anime, as evidenced by her work in Hi Hi Puffy AmiYumi" could be included based only on content from a primary source like an official website. Hint Hint.
These citations originate here and although the article has an impeccable 10.0 rating on that website, user reviews are not considered encyclopedic for our purposes. All statements originating there should definitely be examined for encyclopedic tone. We may have to consider removing unsourced peacock terms like "most beloved" and "well-respected" even though within the small voice acting community it certainly is true. WP:V states clearly that statements need to be both true AND verifiable.
- Statement about friendship with Tara Strong almost certainly true, but I cannot find a published source to say so.
- And statements about Tex's birth are only confirmed by the Official MySpace page.
Primary sources like an official page are only useable for certain statements of notability. See WP:V#SELF. Any secondarily published sources, even through Sugar Hill Records or Sandie Schnarr Talent, for example, will do for a secondary source for facts and quotes surrounding Tex's birth. I would really hate to see any the facts and agreeable opinions present in the article removed for lack of sourcing. Let's try to come up with what we can right away. ClaudeReigns 10:25, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Wait are u trying to say that we are lying about Tex? Murry has pics of him on his myspace and Grey's and her official site has not been updated im months.-Sheila
No, silly, read me again. I'm saying it's true but it also needs to be verifiable through the Wikipedia sourcing rules. The myspace sites don't represent independent fact-checked sources. If we can't source these properly, then anyone can come by and delete anything that hasn't been sourced according to WP:V. I don't want that to happen and that is why I'm asking for your help. ClaudeReigns 13:57, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] User:Ronaldscott reveals himself
I'm the one who restored the verify and advert tags yesterday. Apologies for not logging in. While much cleanup has taken place, there is still a great deal of content that prevents this article from being regarded as a legitimate encyclopedia article:
- "Grey DeLisle had a difficult childhood" -- POV
- "DeLisle was heavily into goth bands like The Cure" is unsourced and is also irrelevant
- "In her comedy routine, DeLisle was able to imitate voices very well" -- POV
- "one of America's most beloved and well-respected voice actresses" -- POV, this is also povasserted but I list it here for the sake of completeness
- "She has even learned how to speak Japanese" -- the word "even" presents tone problems, it qualifies as a superlative in this case.
- "They were even featured in an episode of" -- again the word "even" presents tone problems
- "On January 31, 2007 their first child Jefferson Texas "Tex" Hammond was born at 6:00PM (PST) in Los Angeles, CA. At birth, he was 20 inches long and weighed 7 lbs., 8 oz." -- this is an irrelevant biographical detail. The exact time of the child's birth and his birth weight is far too much detail and again makes this article appear to be a fan page.
- "Many thanks for all of the love and good wishes..." -- this has absolutely no place in this article. It does not inform and is irrelevant. It belongs on a fansite or an official site, not an encyclopedia article.
-- Ronaldscott 22:25, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Ronald, Steve Leggett seems to be an active, notable, and often-cited reviewer in the music industry. If you think his claims are POV we can certainly attribute them, but remember, this ain't science, it's entertainment. The biographer's assessment of Delisle's childhood and voice impressions ought to stand as is. I will strike incidences of "even" as per your concerns. I'm waiting for Sheila to possibly bring other citations before striking other entries here. I consider motherhood to be a significant biographical detail, and Delisle's perspective on it to be unique among female professionals. There's an upcoming interview that will probably suffice for citation on all these facts here. I'll strike the fanlove from the quote, but her perspective on working while pregnant ought to stay. ClaudeReigns 14:54, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, I was going to strike the first part of the quote, but after looking closely, my attempts to make the statement clear about her perspective on working in 'Toonland' are horribly choppy without the full quote. You may feel that it is a bit warm and fuzzy, but it does have an encyclopedic function, and for lack of a better edit, I'm letting it stand and supporting it. I'm curious about your unstated PoV. Do you work for a Hollywood agency? Your userpage is awfully... mysterious. Your IP address was also mysteriously French (suggests a proxy). Specifically, it'd be helpful to know if you've worked for any agencies that have targetted voice actors for violation of non-compete clauses or a game company in competition with products which bear Delisle's voice. (Moby Games has had a developer named Ronald Scott) Though you claim your account is "to fix minor grammatical errors and revert vandalism." your contributions are scant at best for a Wikipedian knowledgeable enough to issue a "final vandalism warning". What gives? ClaudeReigns 15:40, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] For Christ's sake
Oh for Christ's sake, let's leave conspiracy theory out of it. I'll address your points one at a time and you can make up your mind.
First of all, I am not challenging the factual statements in the article. Steve Legget's credibility is not at issue; it is the word "difficult" in reference to her childhood and the words "very well" in reference to her abilities as a voice imitator that I take issue with. You will not that Legget himself writes in a less POV style than this article; striking the statement that Ms. DeLisle had a difficult childhood, and modifying the statement that she could imitate voices "very well" to something referring to her natural ability would probably address my concerns for those two items.
The reference to "goth bands like The Cure" is biographically irrelevant according to Wikipedia biography standards, which call for biographies to only include information that is, and I quote, "relevant to the subject's notability." I don't think that her musical interests as a young person are relevant to her notability, which stems from her profound ability. Nor is the statement sourced; it appears to be original research, which is obviously verboten.
Of course motherhood is significant; the baby's exact dimensions and time of birth to the minute are not relevant to Ms. DeLisle's notability. They should be struck. Surely you don't really believe those belong in an encyclopedia article; if you do, I can only appeal to tradition. If you could provide other highly-regarded articles that include details of that nature it's possible I could be convinced.
A direct, unsourced quote, regardless of its subject, also has no place here. Source it, and it can stay, though it probably should be modified to a statement regarding the quote rather than the quote itself. Otherwise you're on pretty thin ice in leaving it here.
Lastly, regarding your questions about my pedigree: I am a completely professionally disinterested software developer working in Portland, OR (and I'd be happy to provide more detail to you outside of Wikipedia, perhaps via email or IM, if it's necessary to establish my identity to your satisfaction.) I happen to be a fan of both DeLisle (mostly because of her work on Avatar and Clifford) and Wikipedia; I'd like her article to not be a disgrace on herself or her fans. My IP isn't French; it's Canadian. My corporate internet connection (I was editing from work) runs through our Vancouver, BC office. Lastly regarding my account and my contributions, the vast majority of my edits are not attributed. I often edit without being logged in. I chose to log in for this discussion. And as far as my knowledgeableness regarding the final warning I issued to that renob vandalizing various pages, I simply read the policy regarding vandalism notices and followed it. If you'll notice, the recipient had received several warnings prior to mine and the final notice was warranted.
I am contributing in good will; let's work together and get this right. Ronaldscott 21:16, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Examine if you will Bach and his walk on foot described in his article. Nothing notable about it. It's just crucial to understanding who he is. The Beatles were influenced by skiffle music. Nothing notable about that either. It's just good biography--helping the reader understand the notable subject. You are quite simply wrong about biography being limited to statements of notability. That is only true for primary sources and not secondary sources.
The details about the baby were already trimmed down by me before your last Talk post. Knowing that you have a passion for protecting against vandalism is important. Why not help out by getting this page protected? Maybe you can ask the administrator that ridiculed Sheila's attempt to correct previous misinformation in the article. If you have something useful to add in namespace, be bold. I think I'll pass on sharing the conclusions I've drawn. Your use of a proxy (and dishonest explanation [2] ) makes me less concerned about responding point by point. I've used what suggestions you've made which seem helpful, and cheerfully ignore the rest. Please note: I am in no way interested in pursuing an email relationship with you. Thank you. ClaudeReigns 05:18, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Passive-aggressive snark is inappropriate. I have not attacked and do not intend to attack you. Please don't respond by assuming I'm dishonest. I repeat: I didn't use a proxy. I simply edited from work. Perhaps Monday when I go in I'll run a tracert and figure out why it's coming out in France. We're a large, transnational corporation and we have have a French office. It's possible that somehow I'm getting routed through it. What, perchance, do you feel I'd have to gain by using a proxy? What edits have I made that make you suspect bad will on my part? It's not as if I'm attacking the subject's character or questioning her ability or stated body of work.
In any case I've been nothing but civil and will continue that policy.
I will not argue the point of notability, because it's contentious in a far greater sphere than this one. We'll get nowhere on that. It was a mistake to bring it up, and as of now I drop it.
As for the points about POV and poorly-sourced or unsourced claims, these are factual and stand on their own merit. There are many unsourced claims in this article by any established standard. I refer you to WP:BLP, which as an experienced editor you are no doubt already familiar with. Biographies continue to be a sensitive subject; they are the subject of much stricter control than other areas of Wikipedia. Rather than following the recommended standard, which calls for immediately deleting poorly-sourced and unsourced claims, I attempted to engage the historical editors, including yourself.
Similarly, there are many statements in the article which express an subjective opinion about Ms. DeLisle's life, career, or ability. These are by definition POV statements. I believe they violate WP:NPOV. As an example, do you truly believe the statement "Grey DeLisle had a difficult childhood" is NPOV?
In any case I will limit my contributions here to grammar corrections until consensus is reached, if you will engage me without accusation. Ronaldscott 05:55, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
A biographer has the privilege and prerogative of making the assessment that a subject had a difficult childhood, without going into the details that less notable essayists have about alcoholism and abandonment on the part of her parents. Were those sources citeable, they would instead be included with more particulars. The biographer instead it seems chose to treat the subject with less detail and some sensitivity. That is why he's paid to do what he does and we are not. If you choose to mention the particular biographer and quote his specific assessment to ensure proper attribution of a statement you consider PoV, you're welcome to. Your concern here is with tone. Feel free to edit tone. I will act as a content defender with all sources I deem to be verifiable including... ClaudeReigns 06:33, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Just to be clear, I also agree with the removed "beloved and well-respected" assessment. I hope I'm not coming off like a DeLisle basher. What brought me to this page in the first place was my respect for her incredible range and ubiquity. I feel like my kids have grown up with Grey DeLisle performing a starring role in their lives. Ronaldscott 07:30, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Grey Delisle's Official MySpace Page
Owing to the exceptional development that several sources previously thought to be reputable (imdb in particular) are now proven to be unreliable for the purposes of establishing fact about Grey Delisle, I recommend that at our earliest convenience that we ask for a white-in of this website for purposes of citing statements of fact about the subject. While I acknowledge that assessments and bias from this website are unapologetically PoV and not to be used, Grey Delisle's Official Myspace Page has been the most helpful source of events, and surprisingly verifiable. Verifiability is the bottom line for inclusion of material into Wikipedia. It was ignored here before with predictable results. The facts concerning the recent birth of Tex are immediately verifiable by the provision of a photograph by the family--and the release of a statement accompanying it implies direct consent by the subject, Grey Delisle, which should satisfy any doubts that those words were written by the subject. So it's true and verifiable. But is PoV a concern? The source, Grey Delisle's Official MySpace Page, did make a statement about those words. Those comments were striken in favor of a more neutral tone by simply attributing the words to Delisle. The words are in quotes and not represented as neutral. Finally, notability is important. It isn't a requirement for secondary sources which fact-check (and we are definitely asserting that the site has proven to be the most reliably fact-checked source). The event of a birth is conceded as notable by the infobox itself. Because the event is notable and we have a factual statement surrounding that event (Grey did say those words about that notable event) the quote is to be included. Note that we never do rely on Grey Delisle's Official MySpace Page to provide us with criteria about what is notable. We merely rely on its two editors to tell the truth and provide factual information. All opinion contained within, however, is to be counted as such and not encyclopedic. ClaudeReigns 06:16, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Deleted unsourced material. All statements in the article should now be sourced and verifiable. It fulfills NPoV to my satisfaction. ClaudeReigns 07:00, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Thank you!!! -Sheila
[edit] Birthday Changed Again
somebody changed her birthday again and I fixed it but is there anyway that nobody can change it again. -Sheila
They did it again!!! Can somebody stop this please? Her Birthday is August 12, 1972 but people keep changing it to August 24, 1973 which is wrong!!! -Sheila
Ok I know my error she was born in 1973 not 1972 opps-Sheila
[edit] Photo Still
I have a photo still of Grey that she gave me promission to use but i dont know how to tag it. Can somebody help me so it will not be removed. -Sheila 13:58, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
