Talk:Greensleeves

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This is amusing, but I'm putting it here. Is this spin really relevant?:

Greensleeves is said by some to refer to the pleasures of alfresco sex and the stains on the sleeves of men who have enjoyed female company whilst thrutching on the grass. cf the female equivalent - Green Mantle. Green the colour of the harlot in medaeival England supposedly worn so as to hide the grass stains. Green also a 'faerie' colour in the likes of the ballad of Tam Lin more here; Thomas Rymer; and pagan Brighid of the Green Mantle.

Many original verses of "Greensleeves" are posted on the Web. Anyone find anything in them to tie to this interpretation? For more a propos avenues to follow try the new External link at the entry. Or a note on separate sleeves worn in the 16th century with a bodice... __Wetman 09:48, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

What does greensleeves mean or refer to? is the above correct?? 71.77.207.50 06:46, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

"The name Greensleeves most likely refers to a prostitute or a lover, since in Renaissance England, green sleeves were worn by prostitute women as a sign of their status."

From this site http://yunyun09.wordpress.com/new-greensleeves-new/

The sleeves were removable for quick undressing, so I read. England used green to identify prostitutes, Nero required prostitutes to have blonde hair. In China they painted brothels blue. Russia it was yellow on their ID cards. Red was also a common symbol for prostitution, red-light district and lady in red.


My Lady Greensleeves" as depicted in an 1864 painting by Dante Gabriel Rossetti.

If it is true is another thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.189.224.92 (talk) 22:17, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Alfredooscarfernandez 22:38, 12 December 2006 (UTC)== Loreena McKennit version... ==


I have a Loreena McKennit version of the song Greensleeves, and its lyrics are a bit different, with chorus as follows:

"Greensleeves was my delight, "Greensleeves my heart of gold "Greensleeves was my heart of joy "And who but my lady Greensleeves."

and she adds another part:


"Thy petticoat of sendle white "With gold embroidered gorgeously; "Thy petticoat of silk and white "And these I bought gladly. "

I recognise the first verse (with a small change to the third line "For I have loved you so long") and the chorus printed in the encyclopedia, but not the rest. I remember seeing a version of Greensleeves many years ago which contained the verse:

"Thy gown was wrought in grassy green, The sleeves of satin hanging by, Which made thee be a harvest Queen, And yet thou wouldst not love me'

I also remember a snippet of a verse containing the lines:-

"With pearls bedecked so sumptuously, The like no other lasses had, And yet thou wouldst not love me.'

Does anyone else know these ?

There is a recopilation of Greensleeves verses by Lindianne Sarno that includes these. You can find them in the link http://music-garden.net/lecture.html

Alfredooscarfernandez 22:38, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] MP3

Anyone know any mp3 links for this song?Dermo69

If you have an eMail address, I can send you a version by Lorena McKennitt or a live version by Neil Young, I think I also have the instrumental version sans lyrics by TSO. Sherurcij (talk) (Terrorist Wikiproject) 22:48, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

I have over 30 versions of Greensleeves (most of them are guitar or harp versions, sans lyrics) and supoose I could send any of them. It is my first contack with Wikipedia and don't know how to contact you. Perhaps, as the precedent user proposes, by an e-mail account. User alfredooscarfernandez Alfredooscarfernandez 01:36, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] more about GREENSLEEVES

Greensleeves was also, I think, the soundtrack of the half-hour TV serial film "Lassie", the famous collie dog, in the latest ' 50 and earliest ' 60. Thanks. A. Lahore

[edit] Greensleeves: We need a definition for this term.

Surely someone has some *real* idea about what this word is referring too? In any case, this entry without such a definition would appear to be rather incomplete.

For instance (and I have no references for this at all), I have heard the theory that the song refers to a gentleman's poor country mistress who works on her farm feeding the cows, etc, hence her green sleeves (from the grass she gathers for the animals). Surely wrong, but why can't we know what is correct? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.147.151.165 (talk) 23:33, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

More experience with folklore might cure you of that certainty. I'm afraid that there are many, many, many things in folksongs that remain baffling. Goldfritha 00:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

It is said that in England prostitutes were required to wear green. The sleeves were removable for easy undressing. Lady Greensleevs was probally a prostitute but some say she might have been a mistress or concubine.

In other countries prostitutes were also “labeled” with a color, In China the brothels were painted blue. In old Rome prostitutes were required to have bleached blond hair. Red-light district and lady in red is a symbol for prostitution in many countries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.189.224.92 (talk) 22:25, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Henry VIII Legend

The legend that Henry VIII wrote this tune is frequently repeated but there's absolutely no evidence that it is true, and there's some evidence that the song is not old enough to have been written by Henry. We should not repeat the legend without noting this. Greg 20:50, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree, but just saying it's unproven is a bit unsatisfactory: what evidence is there for an early date? And is there any evidence for the claim that he did write it? Or any idea where the legend originated? I'm sure I recall hearing that Henry claimed to have written it. Anyone happen to know if he really said that or if anyone really said that of him? Could be my imagination. garik 16:17, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Exam Music

Hi there. I wonder why this song is used in the public examinations in Hong Kong (or in other places as well?) during listening tests. Is there a special reason for that? Perhaps we can write a bit about it in the article. LR4087 06:38, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Who wrote Greensleeves?

"The Singing Waites of England"... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.150.122.122 (talk) 01:53, 3 May 2007 (UTC).

I think the list of people who have re-recorded greensleeves should be checked, a couple of them im sure have not. Enya for one.

I would like to add that John Coltrane's rendition be among those that deserve mention. His appears on the Africa/Brass LP and subsequent re-releases of that album Armadillo01 02:02, 7 June 2007 (UTC)


[edit] ShowTime Series “The Tudors”

On episode nine of the Showtime cable series, King Henry (Jonathan Rhys-Meyers) is shown composing Greensleeves while pining away for Anne Boleyn. Interesting take on the fabled but unproven folklore...

Dwacon 01:36, 9 June 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Robbie Burns Lyrics Question

Some years ago I read there was a verse which was said to have been written by Robbie Burns

I recall it as being "I'll be with her or she be thine My fiddle and I t'gither"

but I haven't found anything recently. How come there is no link (or copy) of verses? DDB 13:29, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Subsequent versions

Is this section really necessary? It comes off as trivia - personally I think the page would be better without it.David T Tokyo 12:56, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Most of it could be deleted. Songs like "What Child Is This?" are a lot more notable than an arrangement for one film, in this case Carry On Henry. Graham87 13:49, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I have no objections to removing it. --Eyrian 14:43, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Graham, Eyrian - that's three of us broadly in favour and no-one seemingly against. I'll wait a few more days to see if there are any other views. If not, I'll remove the section. David T Tokyo 03:44, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Well I see thay someone has now indeed removed the whole section - impetuously ditching the baby with the bath-water. eg I think that the fact that Busoni thought it Chinese enough to include in his Turandot should go in somewhere Bob aka Linuxlad (talk) 13:50, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
In the end I didn't remove the other versions / adaptations - to be honest people seemed to be having too much fun putting them on the page. That said, when someone eventually took the step and deleted the entire section I do feel the page was a whole lot better. As for putting Busoni back in there, surely it's only a matter of time before Vaughan Williams joins him. I think you've reopened the back door for other versions to creep their way back in - let's see. David T Tokyo (talk) 16:11, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
And why not? The re-uses which are going to stand the test of time and/or are unusual should be in there - there is (IIRC) a WP policy on excessive quoting of refs in 'pop culture' because these tend to be a bit ephemeral and can easily overwhelm the main article. Linuxlad (talk) 11:45, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GIF-File with Notes used in the German article

Melody of Greensleeves
Melody of Greensleeves

Got the suggestion to insert this image - so the play-button and the notes can build a unit. But I not really want to make changes in the article. Might someone who knows more about Greensleeves and music do that. --80.128.197.114 (talk) 17:55, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Musicology

The article states that Greensleeves is in Dorian, and often incorrectly played as natural minor. While this point is understandable - it's easy to mistakenly use a minor sixth in place of the major sixth, and that would be the mistake suggested here, the major seventh in the piece is VERY apparent and establishes the melody as melodic minor (raised sixth and seventh ascendant as compared to natural minor) rather than Dorian (raised sixth and minor seventh). I'm frankly too lazy to find a source for a simple exercise of very basic theory, but I thought I'd get the ball rolling. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.31.146.146 (talk) 03:20, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

In the version of Greensleeves I learned at school 60 years ago, the raised seventh (F sharp in the notated example) only occurred at the cadences in the 7th and 15th bars. In the 3rd, 4th, 11th and 12th bars the minor seventh was used (F natural). I would therefore question the notated version and definitely regard the tune as Dorian. At the cadences the F becomes sharpened under the normal rules of musica ficta that operated in the 16th century, and this would not change its modal character.

Indeed, even if the notated version is correct, the tune would still be more Dorian than anything else. By this time the modes were breaking down, and the irregular sharpening of the 7th was one of the ways in which they were doing so. Pitting flattened against sharpened sevenths was something English composers were particularly fond of. The piece would therefore be Dorian with an occasionally sharpened 7th.

In any case, Greensleeves cannot be using the normal melodic minor. The melodic minor has raised 6th and 7th ascending, lowered 7th and 6th descending, so if the tune were using the melodic minor the 6th would only be raised if it were proceeding upwards to the 7th. In fact the 6th is raised throughout the whole tune, even when it is descending - indeed, apart from just before the cadences, the 6th descends to the 5th every time it is used, including very prominently in the 9th and 13th bars. The fact that the tune still uses the raised 6th in these cases means it cannot be using the normal melodic minor.

I would therefore say that, with regard to the mode, the article is correct in all respects. I would also query the source of the notated version. Brumel (talk) 16:29, 2 June 2008 (UTC)