Talk:Green Man

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[edit] Connection to celtic art ? (Glauberg statues)

Hello, I just wondered whether there might be a connection of the "Green Man" with celtic art - especially that of the statue(s) of the "Prince of the Glauberg" in Germany, as to be seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glauberg

The "bubbles" around the ears seem to be leaves, which would add to the interpretation of the "Green Man" being a symbol or even a deity of celtic origin. It would imho make sense to depict a prince or a king with signs of authority - of which elements symbolising a deity would be a good example. Alrik Fassbauer (talk) 23:15, 18 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Suggestion

Make a section listing fictional depictions of the Green Man. I know Robert Jordan's The Eye of the World prominently included the Green Man, and I can't believe that to be the only example. --maru (talk) Contribs 23:24, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Another fictional depiction of the Green Man that might be of interest to mention is the character of Tom Bombadil in J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings. -- Sam, 12:50, 22 February 2006

Hard to see Bombadil as the Green Man, possibly Ghan Buri Ghan is closer. GhanBuri Ghan is described as a woodwose or wildman, not necessarily the same thing. There was a novel called The Green MAn by Kingsley Amis, made into a TV movie starring Albert Finney in 1990 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098813/ Pignut 07:58, 23 July 2007 (UTC)pignut

[edit] Jolly Green Giant

In modern times, the Green Man occurs in sometimes unexpected places: Del Monte's advertising character the 'Jolly Green Giant' is, in essence, a modern derivation of the archetype.

How so? This is an interesting idea but I can't begin to see how it could be justified. Just becaue they're both green and leafy? It seems like a thought off the top of someone's head. If there's any evidence for this idea let's see it! Flapdragon 02:04, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, probably because they're both green and leafy. It's not necessarily an intentioal derivation, and mentioning it in Wikipedia is iffy, IMO, but I can see a case being made. That's the thing with archetypes; they show up where you find them, not necessarily where someone (consciously) intended them to be.
Septegram 14:39, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

That may be true, but I don't see how this is an example. Even if the implication is just that the GM was somehow subconsciously present in the mind of whoever invented the JGG, it's pretty dubious. The JGG has green skin and wears leaves; the GM isn't literally green in colour, he's usually found carved in unpainted stone or wood, and the foliage is part of him. Anyway he's a just head adorning a surface, rather than a three-dimensional whole man. A pretty weak link. We'd be on better ground comparing the JGG with Adam and Eve, or Shrek, but would anyone think that was an enlightening parallel? Flapdragon 18:26, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Thinking about both this parallel and the one above with Tom Bombadil, I begin to wonder whether there is some confusion in people's minds between the architectural motif of the Green Man and the legendary/heraldic archetype of the Wild Man or the Old Man of the Woods. Flapdragon 18:47, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

The GM is an archetypal character and I agree, is related to the Jolly Green Giant and Tom Bombadil, it's more of a "mother nature" kind of symbol... They may not have decided to base said commercial figures on the GM myth, but all the same the symbolism is the same. I also think to much emphasis is placed on the GM's archetectural appeal, he was a myth originally and was not created for archetectural use (pardon my spelling). Personally I think that the Jolly Green Giant and other figures should be put in another category, something to do with the archetype and symbol that the greenman has become. Remember, he developed independant of culture in many parts of the world, that is what makes him an archetype, so perhapse the JGG is just another form of that culturally independant Green Man.

Leif902 22:57, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bog Brothers

I have tested the link to Bog Brothers - Beloved Order of the Green Man. This link was found not to work; the address does not function correctly. I could find no other mention of BOG on a search. I have replaced this link with an alternative link to which I believe the author/editor was referring. abdullahazzam

[edit] Who's William Anderson?

There about 10 or so people by this name on Wiki, to none of whom is the Green Man quote obviously attributable. How about a direct link?

[edit] Discuss the history of the Green Man

According to my studies, the Green Man was a pagan deity of the forest. He was also known as Jack of the Green and was the personification of the greening of the earth with the coming of Spring. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Utahwitch (talk • contribs) 16:58, 23 February 2007 (UTC).

Ronald Hutton in his book "Stations of the Sun" claims that there is no connection between Jack in the Green and the Green Man, and says that the Jack in the Green May Day figure, was originally a milkmaid wearing crockery on her head. I can't follow his argument though and don't find it convincing.

I have seen the green man head in Etruscan art. There is a reference to "Russia's Jack in the Green". I'm assuming that this is a typo, so what is the green man called in Russia? Golden Bough is probably a good source, but I don't have it handy.

It's been claimed that the green man carvings spread from Germany in the middle ages, so they are not an indigenous British tradition. I would like this issue cleared up as there is contradictory evidence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Userlogin&returnto=Talk:Green_Man

My appologies. My computer didn't display the last part of the article where this is briefly talked about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pignut (talk • contribs)

"The Green Man" is also a common traditional English Pub name. Sometimes said to be associated with foresters. "Green Man pub signs will sometimes feature pictures of Robin Hood, or the Green Man head Pignut 09:03, 19 August 2007 (UTC)pignut

[edit] Alhambra

Is that the Christian or the Moorish part of the Alhambra? --84.20.17.84 10:50, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lady Raglan

We should add a link to the Lady Raglan who coined the name -- I don't know the correct link myself. (I'm guessing that she is the former Julia Hamilton, wife of FitzRoy Somerset, 4th Baron Raglan.) -- 201.19.11.75 12:15, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kjili?

One of the picture captions says: "A medieval Green Man on the capital of a column in an English kjili" - the last word appears to be gibberish. Crypto-vandalism? Smithfarm too lazy to sign in 85.71.124.239 (talk) 20:22, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it was vandalism from last October or November that had not been caught. It is now fixed. ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 18:58, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ressurection theme?

I removed the following paragraph from the article and bring it here for discussion:

The Resurrection theme is present in many of the independent figures linked to the green man. Foliate heads and masks have served as images for Rome's Bacchus, Egypt's Osiris, Greece's Dionysus, Britain's "The Green Knight" and Jack in the in all of these separate artistic representations of foliate heads, with similar death/rebirth themes spanning millennia of time in Europe, North Africa, and Asia. Green Men masks and gargoyles can be seen in London's Westminster Abbey, The Spanish Alhambra, British "Green Man" houses, Moscow's cathedrals, the ancient Egyptian Museum in Torino Italy, New York City's brown stones, and mosques in India. The personified leaf mask has been historically resurrected as a symbol for many western rebirth myths; perhaps due to cultural adoption, or mere chance.

It is a rather long paragraph, which repeats things that have already been said elsewhere in the article, has a speculative and unencyclopædic tone, and has no references for its claims. And then, it ends on a note of uncertainty as to its argument. All in all, rather problematic, I would say. Thoughts? ---RepublicanJacobiteThe'FortyFive' 19:02, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Floating Table of Contents

Can anyone assist this reader, in his ignorance, by explaining the purpose of the {{TOCleft}} template in the article? In his browser (which of course may not be representative) it is displacing the "Types of Green Man" section head awkwardly to the right, while leaving the rest of the paragraph aligned to the left. --Old Moonraker (talk) 18:16, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

OK, it's been a week now: I propose deleting it in favor of the standard table of contents. --Old Moonraker (talk) 12:54, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
Replaced by standard ToC; no longer forms part of the "Types of Green Man" section title. User preferences may be set to default at "Hide ToC" if the excess white space is a problem. Good luck! --Old Moonraker (talk) 13:15, 8 May 2008 (UTC)