Talk:Goetheanum

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[edit] References

This article has no references at all. It is in violation of the arbitration rulings concerning anthroposophy-related articles and has been so for months. If adequate, non-anthroposophical sources are not cited in the next week or so, I will propose it for deletion.DianaW 03:27, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

An organization's own self-descriptions are permitted for factual material about that organization. (See link to website)

If you wish this article to be next for cleanup according to the arbitration guidelines, propose this and give it enough months - as were required with other articles - for this to be done properly. By the way, A. sources are permitted for non-controversial aspects of a subject. Hgilbert 11:37, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

I *am* proposing it, and you've already had months. The arbitration was back in January and applied to the entire "family" of Steiner/Waldorf/anthroposophy articles on wikipedia. Fred Bauder was clear that the basic problem is using only or mainly anthroposophical sources to "document" that anthroposophy is the greatest thing since sliced bread. There are a couple dozen such articles that are exactly that - little mini-brochures that function to suggest anthroposophy does so many wonderful things for mankind. Like I say, the arbitration was in January, and it is clearly quite all right with the anthropsophists who have written all these articles that they sit forever and ever like this if no one hollers. I'm saying, either get to work fixing them or they should be deleted. Wikipedia isn't free advertising.DianaW 12:51, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

The article now has adequate references.Hgilbert 15:01, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Hardly. Let's go over this. Ref. 1 - ok (I have no access to it). 2 -"Great buildings online" - I'll comment below. 3 - ok. 4 and 5 - the links don't work for me, but as the page tries to open I can see that these are pages on the Goetheanum web site. These are not allowed under the arbitration rulings that disallow any anthroposophical source for these articles. (The Goetheanum is the world headquarters of anthroposophy.) 6 - this is in German. 7 - Architects journal? ok.

The full text at the "great online buildings" does not say that the Goetheanum is a masterpiece of 20th century architecture, hgilbert, which is what you presently attribute to the source. Far from it. The complete text reads: "After an abortive attempt to build a centre for the anthroposophical movement in Munich, Rudolf Steiner was able to erect the headquarters of his new organization not far from Basel. His entirely timber-clad design was made in 1913. Building soon began and the first Goetheanum was opened in 1920. At the same time, strange edifices connected with the movement grew up around the new 'temple' in the grounds at Dornach. The Goetheanum was burnt down on New Year's Eve, 1922/3 and was replaced by a new building in reinforced concrete. Steiner's work falls into no stylistic category, its idiosyncrasies and originality makes it as unique as the Czech phase of Rondo-Cubism."

— Dennis Sharp. Twentieth Century Architecture: a Visual History. p46-7."

The best it comes up with is "original" and "idiosyncratic."DianaW 14:46, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

The references to the Goetheanum site merely confirmed the dates. This is factual information, nevertheless, I have provided alternative citations for these.

The term "masterpiece" for the First Goetheanum does not appear in either of the citations; I have reworded this to conform to the first citation, a mainstream architectural journal. Hgilbert 12:10, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Could you provide the exact quote from the article that you're sourcing, saying this is "one of the most important buildings of the 20th century"?DianaW 10:38, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

The buildings the author chose appear as a sequence of photos. I have removed the disputed claim as there is only the visual presentation.Hgilbert 15:26, 17 July 2007 (UTC)