Talk:GM LS engine

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I believe earlier ls6 engines were 385 horsepower. The 405 hp version came later, after the addition of lighter valves a higher lift cam and better exhaust. Will do some research and come back.--Ultrapop1 02:10, Oct 3, 2004 (UTC)

Much appreciated! --SFoskett 03:01, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 LS2 / LS7 Ratings 2 Factory Five 3 '550hp' claim 4 Units 5 HSV GTS 6 Piston Slap 7 "All LS1s make 345hp" 8 External links 9 Aluminum LH6 reference

[edit] LS2 / LS7 Ratings

Chevy rates the LS2 in the C6 at 400 hp @ 6000 rpm, not 405. Also, IIRC the new LS7 has been rated at 505 hp @ 6300 rpm and 470 lbs-ft @ 4800 rpm by the new SAE J2723 rating. Atleast that's according to the GM Small Block blog. I'm going to go ahead and change those.--C-Tine 2 July 2005 17:32 (UTC)

You're right. These numbers were fixed on the Chevrolet Corvette page but not here. Thanks! --SFoskett July 2, 2005 19:35 (UTC)

You all are talking about the LS2 in camaro and other sports cars but what about the LS1 in trans am? Can you tell me how much horsepower it has? The car I'm getting has a LS1 engine with a ram air, how much hp would that have? -HLN- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.217.200.156 (talk) 17:40, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Factory Five

I've just removed the reference to the Factory Five from the LS1 section - seeing as it's not a production vehicle (it's a kit car), it's about as relevant as mentioning that there are 1993 RX-7's with LS1s. Ayocee 17:29, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] '550hp' claim

One of GM's favorite things to trumpet about the new Z06 and LS7 is that it is the first engine to be certified using SAE's J2723 test. I find it highly suspect that they would trumpet this, and yet somehow manage to 'miss' 45hp. Ayocee 02:49, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

They didn't "miss" 45hp. An unladden LS7 was SAE tested, not the Z06. The engine is rated for 505hp, and 45 hp is lost throught the drivetrain. It isn't 550hp or even 505hp by the time it gets to the wheels.--24.89.215.104 01:52, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Units

An effort should be made to adopt some unit convention, either SI (english) OR english (SI). It reduces the quality of the articles if the units are constantly mixed. For example, the engine size notation ci (cc) is proper if other measurements are cited as inches (centimeters).

That's the interesting part with American engines. The engineers design and build the block with SI, but they publicly post the engine's vital stats in english. The LT and LS blocks were both designed with SI measurement and their displacements are both advertised in metric. In this case, unit conversion should stand as "SI (english)"

With that said, it's safe to say that Detroit doesn't use cubic inches anymore. Only the old guys are calling an LS7 a "427" or an LS1 a "350".--24.89.215.104 23:23, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

The LT block was still designed in inches, it has the same 4.0/3.48 combo that all prior 350's had. That said, anyone calling the LS1 a "350" either works for a parts store or doesn't check their facts...most people refer to it as the 346 that it is, if they call it in cubes. The LS7 is at least still technically a 427, even if it isa 427.9 cubic inch engine. Ford can keep the 428 number ;) Ayocee 16:18, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] HSV GTS

HSV's GTS didn't use the LS6. It used the LS1, that was modified by Callaway & was designated "C4B": http://autospeed.drive.com.au/cms/A_1553/article.html Aml_0000 15:30, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Piston Slap

I think this should be part of the article. There was a class action suit, for LS1s, no? As I recalled there were alot of pist-off GM owners. 192.197.71.189 22:06, 13 December 2006 (UTC) CJ DUB 22:12, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

There were some, but they still amounted to a small percentage of all LS-series V8's produced. Given that GM has never issued anything more than a TSB for the issue, and that these TSBs only cover engines up through 2002, I think the mention / wording in the article was a bit sensationalist. For every one vehicle that had an engine replaced, or other bottom-end repairs done to resolve this issue, there are literally thousands on the road with no piston slap problems whatsoever. Ayocee 18:28, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

HAHAHA. Tell that to the people who ended up with piston slap. A manufacturer may not release a recall as this would be admitting there is a known problem, would open them to litigation and more serious class actions. By the way, what's your reference for the numbers of engines w/wo piston slap? CJ DUB 22:12, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Please sign your posts. How would a recall open them to more litigation, or any at all? I have no reference that is not anecdotal (I know many people who own / have owned Generation III V8s and not one has ever had a serious case of piston slap) but I have also never once seen any actual information provided regarding the actual numbers of engines that are affected. I get the feeling it's as overstated as the Mazda 1.8 #4 failure from 1999-2000, and Mazda did issue a TSB and recall procedure for those.Ayocee 17:13, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Dude that is a class action suit waiting to happen. You get $10K, I'll find a trial lawyer. The comment "I know many people who own..." is pure anecdote. The article makes it seem as though it something that really happened to nobody. The text entry "However, the scope of the problem appears to be fairly limited as no recall has been issued by General Motors, and the majority of owners of these engines do not report this issue. [citation needed] Additionally, it appears that this issue is confined only to a small number of the engines produced between 1997 and 2002." is also anedotal. Please reference the "fairly limited" and the "only early" engines. I have found evidence that this issue affect 2007 models, even. CJ DUB 22:20, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I know that my only evidence is anecdotal (which is why I noted it as such) but I've never seen any non-anecdotal evidence to the contrary. If this is truly a 'class action lawsuit waiting to happen', how has it not happened in the decade that the engine has been out? Where are the numbers and evidence showing how many engines have actually been replaced due to this problem? Where are the TSBs relating explicitly to GenIII / IV engines after 2002? The only TSBs for newer model years that I've found are GM policy changes across GM's whole line, everything below 8500LB, so basically every GM engine from the Ecotec on up except for the Duramax and 496. Where is the proof that the problem is anything other than a cold-engine noise in almost all cases? Every Volvo redblock I've ever seen was noisy as hell on startup and yet they'll run 200k or more like it was nothing; cold noise is not a definite indicator for long-term problems. Where are the used GenIII / IV equipped vehicles with "New engine at xx miles" in the ad? You'll find it with other vehicles that have engines with longevity issues (such as the FD RX-7...the turbocharged 13B rotary makes for some great power, but cared for improperly and it will eat apex seals like nobody's business). There isn't much that can be offered as evidence that it is not a large problem, but where is the evidence that it IS a problem?Ayocee 16:45, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

I think it's worth revisiting this topic and its merits as to inclusion in Wikipedia. My previous reply above may have been worded a bit harshly in exasperation (or whatever it was) but the fact remains that even now the only 'source' available for the problem (as well as its scope and severity) appears to be a site that would arguably fall under the category of a self-published source. I'm not trying to be combative or argumentative here, either; if there's a reputable source that actually shows evidence of piston slap being a) a problem on a significant number of engines and b) a significant issue, I'd love to see it (and cite it for Wikipedia purposes). Ayocee 21:36, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "All LS1s make 345hp"

There are known and easily-verified differences in the details of most LS1 variants - the cam used in the Corvette is not the same cam as in the Camaro, and the camshaft specifications changed between 1997-2000 and 2001-on. While it's likely that the actual output is closer than GM would admit, there's no reason to believe that every version of LS1 ever used was actually putting down 345hp. Ayocee 20:10, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

In 2000 all F-bodies dropped the EGR and got the same large overlap cam that was in the 'vettes LS1. Other then exhaust system and air intake before the throttle body the engines are practically the same and produce relatively the same power. The numbers were very close before 2000. Some C5s would dyno more then F-bodies, some would dyno less. The differences mostly fell on an engine to engine basis. I've personally seen show room stock Fbodies and C5s dyno 310+ RWHP and some under 290 on the same dyno.

False, the F-Body continued with EGR through 2000; the LS1 in my truck was sourced from a wrecked 2000 Camaro and the EGR system / intake manifold was still present. Additionally, simply because two cars presumed to be stock (it's truly amazing how far one can go with no indications of any modification whatsoever) returned similar rear-wheel horsepower numbers is far from being 'verifiable' according to the Wikipedia standards. Also, keep in mind the independent rear suspension on the Corvette, which provides a better ride and improved handling...but also causes larger parasitic loss when compared to the simpler live-axle setup of the F-Body. Ayocee 17:26, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

I was mistaken. In 2001 EGR went away in the F-bodies. Is it possible there was overlap between the 2000-2001 model years engines in Fbodies? I am almost sure I've seen a 2000 LS1 Camaro w/o EGR from the factory. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.115.27.10 (talk) 14:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC).

There's no way GM would've done that - they would have had to build two different F-Body engines and there would have been no reason to do so, if not emissions regulations in place making doing so difficult. EGR is very easy to remove, and a "factory" looking job would only require a 2001+ exhaust manifold for the passenger side, one of the non-EGR low profile intake manifolds (Corvette LS1, or LS6), a reflash, and a little creativity with hiding the wiring for the EGR. Ayocee 23:00, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External links

It's getting pretty bad with a lot of GM pages but this one is particularly bad. It looks to me that, when compared against WP:EL, none of these links pass the criteria. Thoughts? Ayocee 16:53, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Aluminum LH6 reference

All LH6's have aluminum block and heads, right? The LS4 section of this article indicates that it is iron. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.171.180.101 (talk) 23:30, 12 September 2007 (UTC)