Talk:Ghost Rider (film)

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Ghost Rider (film) article.
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[edit] Dan Ketch

The Dan Ketch references make very little sense for people who don't know the in and outs of this character. Maybe someone could clarify...

There's a link to the Ghost Rider comics page, but this page is focused on the film, which is clearly based on something else. someone really wanting the skinny on all of it should go to that page. However, I'll give some effort a go. ThuranX 21:53, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What? That was Singer

Didn't Brian Singer direct Daredevil...I'm pretty sure he did...

And if I'm wrong I'm sorry fellow comic fans, don't bash me. I just really thought it was Brian Singer.

Nope. It was MSJ- Mark Steven Johnson. Originally, he didn't have a drive to direct or write the screenplay for Daredevil. He wanted to make a film on Ghost Rider. But after that proved to be harduous due to CGI limitations of the time, he was approached for an adaption of Daredevil instead. Bryan Singer's Marvel-related films include X-Men and X2, with Superman Returns being his first DC film. Hope that helps. The Chibi Kiriyama
Ah my bad. I totally thought it was cuz it had that special "Trailer" and sneak "preview" on the x-men 1.5 (or was it 2) DVD. It kinda led me to believe Singer was responsible for Daredevil. Whoops lol Thanks for clearing it up. --St jimmy86 17:27, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] formatting and layout.

can someone drop some blank carriage returns under the plot section so the Cast section will default left again? I don't want to shrink the picture more, but it's throwing off the page. ThuranX 15:13, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

(I did it with regular returns, but if someone else can do it in markup, so as to be more efficient nad cleaner, that'd be great. ThuranX 15:14, 9 December 2006 (UTC) )
The page looks fine to me. Do you still see the same problem? --Erik (talk/contrib) @ 19:33, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article clean-up

I plan to change the Production section into a straightforward section (without any sectioning), but I also plan to create a Design section under which there will be Sound and Visual effects subsections. If anyone has any issue with this setup, leave a comment here. I'll probably implement these changes in the coming week. --Erik (talk/contrib) @ 19:37, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rating?

Not mentioned once. Quadzilla99 02:06, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Check that I added that. Quadzilla99 02:07, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tattoo

This was removed from the article due to a lack of citation: "As Ghost Rider is one of Nicolas Cage's favorite characters, he has a large tattoo of the character on his back, which had to be digitally removed for the film." If anyone can find a citation for this, please re-add it. Thanks. Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 18:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

it is a flaming skull tatoo on his arm, and is mentioned in the DVD commentary and shown in the special features--Aaronpark 16:14, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citations for use

Citations for use. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 14:05, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Differences

I've finished reading the official novelization and there are numerous differences in how the characters are portrayed in the comics when compared to the film I was thinking that, after the release of the film, that a section detailing any differences between how the characters are portrayed in the film and comics might be appropriate, maybe? Caretaker, for instance, is an extremely obscure character and this link provides some general information about the comic book version, such as his origin and special abilities and all that, as well as a listing of all of his known appearances in Marvel publications.http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/caretr.htm

The best way to compare and contrast the film adaptation to its comic book origins would be to use reliable sources that point out the differences and similarities between the two. We can't do it ourselves because this constitutes original research. We cannot present ourselves as authorities in comparing and contrasting. I'm sure that when the film debuts, there will be reviews that will analyze how Ghost Rider adapted from the comics to the big screen. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 01:24, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Ghost Ride the Whip" Commercial

Cartoon Network's Adult Swim block has been promoting the movie with the tag line "Ghost ride the whip", which really has nothing to do with the movie, as apparent by the Ghost ride article; it appears as if the marketing of the movie is just trying to capitalize on a little known meme because of the similar names.

It might be worth adding this to the main article under "Promotions", however I've no reference other than seeing the commercial for the last several days myself. (Which I find annoying given what Ghost Riding and the Hyphy movement are.) 207.138.41.165 04:47, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Release date

According to the Infobox Film template's syntax guide, "Use: if possible, the exact release date. ("May 18, 2008") Use the first public non-festival release in any country. This means any limited releases or openings before opening wide should go by the limited release date. If multi-country entries are necessary, you can put the flag icon before the release date for each country." There's no necessity for multi-country entries. Ghost Rider is an American production and is released there first. No FA-class film article features secondary release dates on the basis that it was filmed in that country -- filming is done in other parts of the world as well. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 13:42, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

If you look closer, it states Use the first public non-festival release in any country which is the Australian release. The production company is American owned sure but most of the production was completed in Melbourne and a bit in Vancouver. The Australian release is non-festival and therefore is worthy of infobox mention. Until an Admin decides what is right, I will keep putting it back if you keep reverting. --Lakeyboy 22:44, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Ok, in reviewing this, I concede the matter. I was under the impression that it was released in America before the other countries. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 22:50, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Christopher Young

Citation for use. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 02:03, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Critical Reception

26% at rotten tomatoes, this needs to be added but since im too lazy to add it but not mention it here (uhh??) feel free to pitch in. Also theres probobly tons more sites giving reviews that have notoriety such as rotten tomatoes but as i dont care... ya enough said. 26%... ouch The Ravager 18:48, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I've added it. Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 18:54, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Weasel words?" Hardly.

As opposed to instigating some form of "edit war," I thought I'd present my (hence removed) contribution for the film's Reception category: Though Ghost Rider has received a typically positive response by movie-goers, professional critics have been less kind. As of February 16, 2007, the film maintains an average approval rating of 32% at Rotten Tomatoes.[32]Among the film's defenders has been Luke Y. Thompson of E! Online. Wrote Thompson:

::Seriously, people, if you’re going to go see a movie you know is about a biker with a flaming skull and magic chains, you forfeit the right to complain about how the plot isn’t logical or realistic.[1]

Does this truly violate some form of NPOV policy? It's established that most critics didn't care for the film while simultaneously presenting the reasoning of one who's formed an opinion otherwise. --AWF

Nothing cites that "Ghost Rider has received a typically positive response by movie-goers". In addition, the sample from the review you cited was a challenge to other reviews and not actually critical (either positively or negatively) of the film itself. The Reception section should be weighed toward negative reviews of the film, based on the neutral aggregation of a site like Rotten Tomatoes. Hope my revert make sense. The E! Online citation would be fine if you instead quote the merits of the film itself, and also add at least two negative criticism from other citations for the appropriate balance. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 23:36, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
The "typically positive" response by movie-goers, while not grand, is established by user reviews at the "Tomatoes" link in question, as well as the IMDb entry linked to this page. I understand the problem with E's citation, though it does pertain to the overall reaction. Finally, I don't believe that the number of examples needs to exactly match the proportion of reviews by Rotten Tomatoes. The "32%" establishes that without the requirment of infantilizing Wiki's readership with metaphoric illustrations. --AWF
Unfortunately, an aggregation of user reviews at one site cannot qualify as a voice for the masses. Not all those who saw Ghost Rider will come to the site and write a review of the film. On the other hand, the aggregation of professional reviews on that site is suitable, as it is drawn in a neutral manner from an existing list of reviewers. I assume good faith in your attempt to improve the Reception section, but in reviewing film articles of Featured Article status, user reviews are not cited this way. Instead, the box office performance is ideally the best way to reflect what theater audiences thought of the film. In addition, while the Rotten Tomatoes rating reflects mostly disdain for the film, the Reception section should further expand on why the reviewers didn't like it -- as far as I can tell, predictable plot, wooden characters, etc. Obviously, I'm not trying to ask for a perfect balance of reviews, but based on how it's being received so far, the flaws should be explored before the merits. If you can work both together and make ensure a balance (not quite easy to do, I know), then that would be great. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 23:51, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
Understood (and honestly, I have no urge to continue on and on with this), but I do have one point of contention. I'm not sure that box office performance is the best way to portray audience reception. For example, Norbit currently holds the number one spot in that regard, but I doubt that it will maintain a great place in the minds of most individuals. Rather, I would be more interested to think what an average viewer would consider after the fact, which is why I tend to favor IMDb, among others. It's not perfect, to be sure, but it provides further insight. --AWF
I don't have any issues with continuing the discussion. I respect the fact that you brought it to the talk page to discuss; I don't see too much of that with the work I do in film articles. Norbit, from what I know, is an interesting case. Box office performance can be studied; studios often watch to see how films perform in their second weekend to determine if they will continue to fare well. Some films drop off after the first weekend -- I believe the Matrix sequels did, and it was due to the hype, then the poor word-of-mouth that resulted in weak second weekends. There are films like The Sixth Sense and My Big Fat Greek Wedding that had consistently strong box office weekends, that show how receptive audiences were. I just disagree that user reviews from a site like Rotten Tomatoes or IMDb is an accurate gauge of audience reception; I've noticed strong inflations of user reviews of films that have strong fanbases. Of course, that's a personal perspective, and may not be warranted. However, the film articles of Featured Article status have fared without the inclusion of user reviews, instead detailing box office performance and a variety of criticisms (positive and negative) from professional reviews. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 00:08, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Honestly... I'm beginning to rework my opinion, because I think you've got a solid point as far as box office indication is concerned. It's not always the case, but it is true by and large. I do maintain that many online outlets may be valid, however. One needs only to view user submitted reviews and discussions at a multitude of these sites to find that a great deal of criticism tends to balance out any fansite mentality. --AWF —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.54.155.35 (talk) 00:15, 17 February 2007 (UTC).
The Reception section is a bit of a challenge to develop especially considering that the film just debuted yesterday. My issue with the user reviews is how they're aggregated. Like I mentioned, not everyone visits Rotten Tomatoes or IMDb. Ideally, the best reflection of audience reception (excluding box office performance) would be a randomly conducted poll that would be neutral toward (or against) a fan base or any other number of biases (such as computer users or not, never know if that's significant). Films, I guess, are usually made for audiences. This film has a large budget, so I'm assuming that the studio expects a strong box office performance from Ghost Rider as opposed to an indie film. I don't know what the estimates will be, but I'm sure if there is some notability in the revenue, it can be reflected in the article. I just approach new content of an article based on its encyclopedic value; is it quite worthy of inclusion for a general audience to say what visitors of one or two particular sites thought of a film? It's best to reflect the big picture; the aggregation of professional reviews, the box office performance, both domestic and overseas (Troy is a good example of something that did strongly overseas as opposed to domestically). Take a look at film articles at WP:FA#Media and see if you can get any ideas on how to shape an appropriate Reception section. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 00:26, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Following this thinking, I've removed the JoBlo site review as well, especially since his comment os more derogatory towards the audience than it is praising the film. ThuranX 04:59, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citation for use

Citation for use. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 16:18, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] production budget?

I see here on the ghost rider page that its production budget is listed as $120 mil but on boxofficemojo.com, it is listed at $110 mil, which one is correct? - RVDDP2501 22:12, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I suppose we'll go with $110 million in the meantime. I thought I saw $120 million somewhere in one of the citations, so I'll have to dig that up and see if it's a more authentic source than Box Office Mojo. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 22:14, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Who's Who in the Fallen?

I know that the Fallen are Abigor, Grissel, and Wallow, but I don't know which name corresponds to which character. Can anybody help me out?

Abigor is the wind one with the dreadlocks. He has a mini toy out. Dunno which of the others is which. DeathWeed 04:02, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Abigor was air, Grissel earth, and Wallow was water, naturally. ThuranX 04:49, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bike Design

Who was it designed by ? American Choppers ?

[edit] Box Office figures

I'm not experianced with wikipedia and don't wish to create problems with the references, but the box office numbers listed are only initial estimates and have not been updated with the final figures. It might not seem to be much of a difference, but the movie actually earned 15.4 million on opening day and 45.4 million for it's 3 day weekend.

I find the same mistake in the box office numbers on the pages for many films. You can find actual numbers at boxofficemojo.com. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.8.221.78 (talk) 14:59, 12 March 2007 (UTC).

In addition to the domestic and international take during its theatrical run, Ghost Rider has been quite a hit during its home market run, with DVD Sales total of $77,712,869 on August 26, 2007. A weekly breakdown can be found at http://www.the-numbers.com/movies/2007/GHSTR.php?display=dvd. Is this worth mentioning in the Reception section? On a side note, all box office information referenced is also available at the-numbers.com, with as difference compared to boxofficemojo that the the detailed box office information is and will remain to be freely available. PimBeers 07:05, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Legion

Why do editors insist on readding over and over that blackheart's name changes? He describes himself as 'legion' referring to the multitude of souls he now controls, not as a new name for himself. Until someone can cite that this is an actual character change, I think it needs to go. Literary devices and bombastic self-description aren't name changes. ThuranX 05:52, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

his name does change to legion according to the extended cut DVD commentary --Aaronpark 18:31, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Infobox

I know you guys think it's cool, and I agree, but we can't have an image as the title of the infobox. It wouldn't pass a fair-use review. It's the same font as on the film's poster.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 20:05, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I was actually thinking that it seemed inappropriate and unnecessary for a while now. Just never got around to kicking it off. Let's just do that and have a normal title in place. —Erik (talk • contrib • review) - 20:07, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

~~XXDillanXX~~ 11:32, 7 May 2007 (UTC)dell-kms07~~XXDillanXX~~ 11:32, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:GhostRiderTeaser.jpg

Image:GhostRiderTeaser.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:44, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] trivia section?

I was wondering if there should be a trivia section to this article, for instance, when GR is pulling the helicopter towards him with the chain, he says, "come here", this could be a reference or tribute to scorpion from Mortal Kombat who was inspired by Ghost Rider - RVDDP2501 14:50, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Trivia sections are discouraged. It's better to integrate the information into another part of the article. —Erik (talk • contrib) - 14:52, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
WAIT WUT? It's better to have a separate trivia section, makes it easier to find certain information. Much more interesting to read too. And yeah, the info about the MK reference should definately be there. Plus, Curtis Slade's Ghost Rider form looks somewhat similar to the Skull Cowboy from The Crow if you ask me.

[edit] Wrong Name and Link

This: James Shaffer as Abigor (Wind Demon), is not right at all. The link for James Shaffer takes you to the guy from the band Korn. I think (not 100% though) Abigor was played by Mathew Wilkinson. I don't want to change it yet b/c Imdb has been wrong before but I know Munky from Korn is not right. J-Axe

[edit] Picture

somone should change the pic to the dvd cover of ghost rider. it would look better

[edit] Extended cut

Anyone in the know enough to actually describe the additional scenes found in the extended cut of the film? 'cause I just watched it, and danged if anything jumped out at me... - 81.157.48.154 15:13, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:GhostRiderBigPoster.jpg

Image:GhostRiderBigPoster.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 23:47, 2 January 2008 (UTC)