Talk:Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai

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Contents

[edit] General

Some of the songs in the film is also in the Ghost Dog:The Way Of The Samurai(Japanese Version) "FAST SHADOW" & "SAMURAI SHOWDOWN" by the RZA & Wu-Tang Clan are in the movie besides the good shit in the soundtrack --68.220.235.196 20:46, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)King--68.220.235.196 20:46, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It's worth noting that the book referenced as a guide to Bushido ("the way of the Samurai") is by no means the only one on the subject, and, if I recall correctly, it doesn't meantion that (or any) specific translation. I personally own another one, and I don't really see why Wikipedia should be in the business of endorsing one over another. On the other hand, I'm not sure what it should link to if not a specific book - perhaps it should be excised completely and simply link to the Bushido article? aubrey 06:56, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

--

I found the similarity between the following passage and the plot to Ghost Dog to be striking. I was wondering if anyone knew if there is a connection:

"Say there is this old gentleman living in modern times, a scholar, a man who is facinated by the early days of the samurai and the Code of Bushido. Say that he identifies so strongly with these ideals that one day he loses his senses and comes to believe that he is an old-time samurai. He dons some ill-fitting armor he had collected, takes up his katana, goes forth to change the world. Ultimately, he is destroyed by it, but he holds to the Code. That quality of dedication sets him apart and ennobles him, for all of his ludicrousness."

Exerpt from: 24 Views of Mt. Fugi, By Hokusai

Author: Roger Zelazny

   See also: Don Quixote

[edit] Itchy and Scratchy

Is it just me, or did Vargo's daughter watch Itchy and Scratchy in the final scene? (The fictional cartoon watched in the simpsons' universe) OzOz 12:37, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

She did. Any in-depth analysis of the film would likely point this out and dwell on its significance, but I'm not sure it merits mention in the film's Wikipedia entry.

[edit] New additions

I just performed a major edit to cleanup some of the plot, rearrange the layout a bit, and add material to the trivia and theme sections, including analysis of the cartoons mentioned above. Cybertooth85 19:43, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Is it Itchy and Scratchy? I remember a famous TEX AVERY 'cat + mouse' cartoon where the guns get bigger and bigger and bigger ... until they straddle the globe and ... ka booooom. It was made during Cold War era and was (I guess) a kind of Nuclear Proliferation allegory, as well as hlarious. Knowing how multi referential The Simpsons is, even if it is Itchy & Scratchy, I'd bet the makers werent unaware of the Avery precedent. (You could do a whole entry, after all, about cartoon 'inter-referentiality' in The Simpsons.) Also, all the other cartoon clips in Ghost Dog are from the 'classic' EARLY era of cartoons, rather than the present day - which fits in with the films theme (as voiced by Ghost Dog himself in his pen-ultimate speech) about sometimes sticking to the "Old School ways" even if/when they are dying out. (This same speech, co incidentally, is sampled on the new BURIAL alubm, in the UK - one of the hottest albums of the summer from the new trendy 'dub step' movement.) We frequently see the Mafia guys staring at the cartoons as if they are pop culture versions of Hagakure - old texts with truths to tell. (The ascension of the daughter is in fact signalled, I think, by her watching cartoon in car at the end...? In which case, of course, Itchy and Scracthy would make sense, because that is HER era, as opposed to the old dinosaur Maf guys ...)

Alternative thesis: I remember a Bill Hicks routine in which he sez American foreign policy is like a Shane type Western - in which the US first SELLS smaller foreign countries billions of dollars of ARMS, and then dares the country to use them - and then acts with OUTRAGE when they do ... allowing them to intervene and stomp on the smaller satellite country, thinking it will be a doddle. Which it never is. Ever. (I.P.) (Substitue Mao's little Red book, or the Koran, for Ghost Dog's copy of Hagakure, and you get the picture...)

[edit] Excellent article

This article is a fantastic read. It's full of information and insight while remaining succinct. Massive thanks to those involved, it's fitting that an article for a film so good and yet so little-known would match it. Chris Cunningham 12:28, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

    • Yes, very nice read. I always come to wikipedia to read about a film ive just watched and im almost never dissapointed.

It was itchy and scratchy at the end with the guns getting bigger and bigger, i cant think of any relevance to the film it has. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.0.24.131 (talk • contribs) 29 August 2006

[edit] Harrison Ford theory

In the Trivia section, one item seems like it may be a personal interpretation: "When Ghost Dog introduces himself to the mafia guards at the mansion, he says his name is "Bob Solo," a combination of two Harrison Ford characters, Bob Falfa (from American Graffiti) and Han Solo (from Star Wars)." Is this just original research, or has this been previously published somewhere? --Ds13 20:11, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article assessment

I've assessed the article as Start class. Though nicely written, these are some reasons which prevent the article from getting a higher assessment:

  • it missess some important sections
    • no Reception (critical and box-office)
    • no Production/Background
  • unreferenced - no citations whatsoever, which is extremely serious; this makes especially the themes area vulnerable to WP:NOR
  • the Themes section should be extended (with citations); it also mixes themes with artistic devices
  • the info in Trivia should be incorporated in prose - see Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/Style guidelines
  • Literature referenced in the film, though interesting, is basically a section stub

IMO, still some way to go AdamSmithee 20:55, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

I addressed the lack of Reception and added it, as a stub but anyway. It also includes references. I suppose the Literature referenced in the film could be merged under the newly created References header, using the {{cite book}} template? --ZeroOne 23:05, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
References should contain references for info about the film. Literature referenced in the film, as I understand it, is about books that the film itself touches upon, which is different. So, IMO they shouldn't be merged AdamSmithee 00:42, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Most recent edit

A lot of wording changes in the last edit and there are quite a few I really don't think make the article better. Starting paragraphs with a pronoun is an obvious no-no, for instance. Reverting would be a bit harsh, but some of that really should go back. Chris Cunningham 18:57, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Plot outline

The plot outline seems very POV at times - as do many in wikipedia, for some reason. Is this some sort of standard set down somewhere? Or does just somebody with way too much time on their hands and a pretty poor understanding of cinematography go about writing way too detailed (this is an encyclopedia, afterall) plotlines, which are frequently also very personally biased? For instance, in this particular movie, there is no reason to believe Louie would kill Ghost Dog out of some absurd loyalty for his masters. He is portrayed as way too weak and cowardly to even think about something like that. My personal view would be, he'd be running away as fast as he could, if he wasn't forced at gunpoint to take out GD. But I wouldn't put this stuff into an article, because I know this is my view of the situation and therefore POV, unlike whoever is writing these plotlines.

Also, is there any particular reason for a link to a site in Polish? This movie has nothing to do with Poland, neither are resources on the net so scarce that a sufficiently good site in English couldn't be found. A Polish link helps in no way, and should be restricted to the Polish version of the article. I mean, WTF? 213.172.254.80 01:07, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jersey City?

Is it just me, or didn't this movie take pains to not take place anywhere? I mean, it's obviously New York, but in the way that "Gotham" or "Metropolis" are New York. No place names are ever mentioned and (it's been quite a few years since I've seen it) I'm pretty sure all the license plates on the cars were fictional. JesseRafe 20:36, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

about 2,190,000 Google results seem to disagree. It was largely shot in Jersey City, and people have New Jersey accents. I've changed the tag to citeneeded to indicate that it's in need of evidence but not actually factually disputed. Chris Cunningham 00:39, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, it obviously has to be shot somewhere, but the location of the shooting and the setting of the movie are different things. Look how many movies are set in New York, but have the picturesque Rocky Mountains of Vancouver in the background. Same goes for the speaking, which isn't so coincidental as controllable, but I think Jarmusch just wanted them speaking in prototypical inner-city accents, and it was more of a Brooklyn accent anyway. If you own the movie (which I don't) I suggest watching it again and look for the scenes with cars clearly in view (such as the bear hunters or Ghost Dog rolling into the estate). I remember it being fictious license plates, but I can't recall what it was exactly. If it is a fictional state license plate, then I posit that it exists in a non-state, and a non-city, and therefore, not Jersey City. JesseRafe 02:21, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
There was one license plate, the one that Ghost Dog switched from a picnicking family's station wagon onto his stolen Mercedes that said "The Highway State". I didn't catch the slogan on the white car tags from Ghost Dog's home state. It was clear to me that the movie was not set in any specific city. Yes, Jersey City was a location, but it wasn't the setting. Also, I am surprised this article does not mention the connection to Le Samouraï. The homage is quite clear in the way Ghost Dog has a "key" for any luxury car, similar to the way Alain Delon's character literally had a big ring of keys that would allow him to drive just about any Citroen DS he encountered. Of course, Le Samouraï's influence on Ghost Dog isn't mentioned in that film's article either. A bit of digging might turn up a reputable web reference or book ISBN to make this connection. -Wisekwai 15:17, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I agree. You know, you can add the references yourself in a trivia section, if you can't find any sources. I'm going to remove the Jersey City in the article. JesseRafe 17:17, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. I'll track down a reference and add in a bit about Le Samourai. -02:23, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:GhostDog.jpg

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