Talk:Gesso

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Yes; but what IS it? Graham 07:28, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

I removed the following text: "Websters says odoriferous means strong smelling, in particular, sweet smelling - perhaps the original author meant 'stinks'?)" as it is factually incorrect. odoriferous simply means odorous (according to m-w.com)... that is, giving off odor. Perhaps odoriferous should be changed to malodorous or fragrant to be more specific. I, however, prefer the usage of odoriferous as it empirically objective.

As a further note, I believe such comments belong here, in the talk page, and not as a part of the article. Efflux 20:11, 26 July 2004 (UTC)

can someone tell me what is the best practice to Gesso the panel for painting?


Contents

[edit] gesso in art

I still don't understand when do you use gesso for priming, how do you use it, do you use gesso only, and where can you buy such a thing? Also how long does it take to dry. young artist


[edit] Pronunciation

How do you pronounce gesso? (please add to article) Abeg92 17:41, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some answers and comments

"Gesso" is pronounced "JEH-so." "JEH" like in Jerry. "So" as in so. :-)

Where to get gesso... Googling for "Easy Gesso Mix" and "real gesso" will bring up some hits for where to get real gesso. So-called acrylic gesso is available at just about every art supply store and web site.

Gesso and acylic gesso both dry very fast.

Real gesso is for panels, not canvas. Acrylic gesso is frequently used on canvas. Inexpensive pre-primed canvases are (almost?) all primed with the acrylic stuff.

Canvas has to be sealed against the oil, which will eventually rot the canvas. Yep, linseed oil (made from flax) will rot linen (made from flax). Strange but true. The sealer is called a "size."

The traditional way to prepare canvas is to size it with rabbit skin glue, to seal it against the oil, and then coat it with an oil based ground. Lead white paint, with or without chalk or whatnot is a traditional ground. Canvases prepared with lead white are best after they have dried for six months or more.

If you put enough acrylic gesso on a canvas, it will be sealed sufficiently. The question is how much is enough.

The traditional way to prepare a panel is with gesso (Italian for "chalk"), which is a mixture of glue, chalk, and frequently white pigment. Many people consider real gesso to be the gold standard of panel grounds. See comments below.

Now the comments.

Some of this entry reads like a polemic favoring acrylic "gesso." There may be better, modern alternatives to rabbit skin glue for sizing canvas, (I could not say), but acrylic gesso is by no means the only option. There's nothing here about the lingering concerns some have that the oil paint will eventually delaminate from an acrylic ground. (There are no three hundred year old paintings on acrylic gesso.) There is also no mention of two draw-backs: 1) Acrylic gesso stains immediately, making some kinds of underpainting methods impossible; 2) Acrylic gesso is hard and rough. It is next to impossible to sand. It wears on the brushes very badly.

This has now gone from a polemic favoring acrylic gesso to one against it. It is no means an established fact that oil paint will eventually delaminate from acrylic gesso. I would think it probably won't. I am removing that part.

Jive Dadson 08:31, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, in fact I have re-added the portion about the negatives of using acrylic gesso. I have referenced "The Painter's Handbook" which mentions this. If you have been painting in oils on acrylic gesso, I pity your paintings in 100 years. When you read about the mechanism for this, it becomes quite clear why a lot of painters are going to rue their decisions--or rather the next owner of those paintings is going to reject that. Please do not remove this material, as it is based in fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Curmudgeon99 (talk • contribs) 17:13, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
Okay, I just did a little bit of googling on acrylic gesso delamination and I found people who had experienced the delamination. Also, this link: http://forums.studioproducts.com/showthread.php?t=28610 describes a conversation with a senior curator at the Smithsonian who clearly rejected acrylic gesso for oil paint and extolled the long-term virtues of Rabbit-skin glue. To quote the relevant passage:

"The main reason I switched was a conversation I had with Dr. Marion Mecklenberg of the Smithsonian. In his research on older oil paintings he found that the original canvases had lost their tensile strength and it was the RSG that was basically supporting the aged,brittle paint films. He has been acting as a consultant for various enterprises trying to develop modern sizing materials. As of our conversation of a year ago he said none of the new materials as currently constituted ( PVA sizes, acrylic fabric stiffeners, etc. ) could match the strength, and as I understood it combination of body and 'good' stiffness of RSG and so provide the support to ageing oil paint films that RSG does. He felt that the support provided by RSG was much more important than the fact that it is somewhat hygroscopic. The hope is that new stuff will come along that can match RSG's support capabilities without being hygroscopic, but evidently we're not there yet." So, folks, if you remove this information about the negative effects of using oil paint over acrylic gesso, you are distributing damaging misinformation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Curmudgeon99 (talk • contribs) 17:23, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Margaret Macdonald Glasgow Four

Does anyone know how Margaret Macdonald made her gesso panels?

Is it just me, or do these lines at the end of the 'Acrylic gesso' section sound more like an assault on canvas manufacturers and an advertisement for books than an encyclopedia entry?

Well, the tone of that passage is intended to counter the unsupported claims of persons who wish that acrylic gesso did not cause the delamination. I would be happy to restore that passage in a neutral form but then you will have the harpies coming to eliminate the passage. It is a pretty well known fact that the Smithsonian's curators prefer Rabbit Skin glue over acrlyic gesso to go under oil paint. If we can assume that this issue is done, then I will favor putting in non-defensive text on that point.

"Of course, manufacturers of pre-gessoed canvas will deny this delimination takes place. Unfortunately, the science is pretty clear. Please refer to "The Painter's Handbook" for details. Also, another textbook "Artist's Manual" also refers to the negative effects of using oil paint over acrylic gesso." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.178.237.51 (talk) 06:35, 29 October 2007 (UTC)